Any thoughts about ENDA?

[DMsquared2]

Posted: 11/8/07 at 10:49pm

So it was passed by the House yesterday, which is great, but I'm terribly ambivalent about it. As a gay person I'm happy but as someone who cares about the trans community I'm at a loss.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/08/washington/08employ.html?_r=1&ref=washington&oref=slogin

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/8/07 at 10:56pm

I'm thrilled.

Legislation happens in increments, something the all-or-nothing crowd didn't understand.

The gay organizations went through an awful disconnect between their group-think and the aspirations of the larger gay community. The false "Barney Frank is transphobic" meme should never have been aired publicly.

Check out John Aravosis's AmericaBlog. He's been writing about it for the past few weeks.

http://www.americablog.com/

Updated On: 11/8/07 at 10:56 PM

[DMsquared2]

Posted: 11/8/07 at 11:02pm

I think Barney Frank handled the situation really well and I do believe that while this was a somewhat small victory it's better than nothing.

There's a really good write up in Dan Savage's blog (a.k.a. SLOG) which has some news clips from C-Span.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/8/07 at 11:07pm

It's a HUGE victory. The first national gay civil rights legislation passed by one of the houses of Congress.

HUGE.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 11/8/07 at 11:50pm

I agree that we need to protect people from discrimination based on sexual/gender identity.

But this protects all people based on their sexual orientation, transgendered or not. It's a big start. We'll get there.

[broadwaytourist]

Posted: 11/9/07 at 7:51am

I live in Tennessee, the home of Cracker Barrell (who I've heard has changed their policy of discrimination), and, Lord knows, the gay community needs federal protections here. The state is never going to do that, but I am devastated for the trans community. I'm afraid they will be left out in the cold. Alone, they just do not have the numbers or political clout to ensure it happens for them. Look at the Largo, Florida city manager. She could not muster enough community outrage to save her job. What makes every one think they can get enough votes on their own to have Congress act on their behalf. I'm afraid the gay political action gorups will find "more important" issues that affect them only to spend their time and money on. I just think the trans community has been dealt an awful blow by their own brothers and sisters. It knocks the shine off the victory that is ENDA.

[madbrian]

Posted: 11/9/07 at 8:03am

While this is a major victory, I hope there is enough support to get through the Senate, then to override a likely veto. An AOL online poll had 60% supporting the legislation.

[Pip]

Posted: 11/9/07 at 8:12am

I'm with PJ on this. Just getting legislation passed at all was huge. For many legislators, this was a risky step and, regardless of the shortcomings of the legislation, a monumental precedent has been set. There's a crack in the firmament!

It's a shame that it sometimes takes legislation and court decisions to "guide" our society toward what is right (i.e. the civil rights movement)but that is the best part of leadership, too. And, for those who still don't see the "right", there will still be generations of resistance and gradual isolation from what has become the norm. Their influence will shrink as the rest of society becomes more accepting and supportive. There's no question that racial inequality is still part of the struggle, but great strides have been made in the last 50 years toward society perspective of what is "right" and I believe that will happen here, too.

We will get there, my friends! This legislation, whether it makes it all the way to law or not, gives me hope!

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/9/07 at 8:18am

I think the trans community is acting like a bunch of whining babies.

What's the point in making the rest of the community feel guilty when it ought to be a a first victory?

I bristle at the words "transphobic" and "pyrrhic victory." I reject both phrases.

That sense of entitlement is politically naive and helps turn the GLBT community into perennial losers.

We need to get smart.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 11/9/07 at 8:46am

she can do better than seymour.

[robbiej]

Posted: 11/9/07 at 9:58am

"I think the trans community is acting like a bunch of whining babies."

In a lifetime full of rotten posts, this one really takes the cake, PJ.

Is that what the gay community has been acting like for 30+ years?

Disgusting.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/9/07 at 10:14am

Perhaps today's NY Times editorial says it better, but I have received so many guilt trips about this issue on other boards that I stand by my whining babies remark. I have been called much worse by them, simply for being happy about this.

===

November 9, 2007
Editorial
An Overdue Step for Equal Justice

With its vote on Wednesday in favor of a bill to outlaw discrimination in employment based on sexual orientation, the House scored a significant, if long overdue, breakthrough for equality and fairness. The Senate should now pass its own bill, and President Bush should sign this guarantee into law.

The House bill’s passage owes much to the diligent efforts of Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the measure’s chief sponsor, and fellow Democrats Steny Hoyer, Tammy Baldwin and Speaker Nancy Pelosi. Truly, though, the victory was more than 30 years in the making. The Employment Nondiscrimination Act is the latest version of a bill that two former Democratic representatives from New York, Edward Koch and Bella Abzug, first introduced in 1974.

Protecting the employment rights of gay people no longer seems as bold as it did then. Americans have come a long way in accepting gay rights, and some 20 states already have adopted similar laws. Despite this progress, a federal law is still very much needed, since there remain 30 states that have not acted to prevent gay men, lesbians and bisexuals from being denied jobs or promotions simply because of who they are.

Winning a majority in the House required a painful decision by the bill’s sponsors to jettison language extending the prohibition against employment discrimination to transgender individuals. As a result, some gay rights groups opposed the final bill.

We sympathize with the groups’ sense of injustice, but disagree heartily as to strategy. Transgender people should be protected from discrimination, and we hope they soon will be. It would have been regrettable, however, had the sponsors refused to compromise, and as a result, lost the chance to extend basic civil rights to the millions of Americans who would be covered by the current bill.

Throughout American history, civil rights have been achieved in incremental steps. The landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964, for example, barred race discrimination in public accommodations, an enormous step forward at the time. It wasn’t until the next year that Congress protected voting rights in a separate bill.

The Employment Nondiscrimination Act now moves to the Senate, where Senator Edward Kennedy, the Massachusetts Democrat, is planning to introduce the same bill. In 2007, the idea that no American should face workplace discrimination because of his or her sexual orientation should appeal across party lines. Disappointingly, however, only 35 Republicans voted for the House bill, and President Bush is threatening a veto.

The reasons the White House has given for opposing the bill — that it would be too burdensome on businesses and that it would lead to too much litigation — echo the ones given by opponents of every previous civil rights bill to pass Congress in the past 50 years or so. That parallel should make Mr. Bush and other opponents reconsider whether they want to be on the side of bigotry, and on the wrong side of history.
NY Times Editorial: An Overdue Step for Equal Justice

[robbiej]

Posted: 11/9/07 at 10:20am

I have no problem with you feeling happy about this (though I'm much more ambivalent).

But what you said is vile. It's what's been said about us for years. You're really going to turn around and say that about a more marginalized community than us???

And maybe the guilt trip is the one you need to take.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/9/07 at 10:30am

Nope. Not taking it. Rejecting it out of hand. I was defending the rights of the trangendered friends before you or most of the people criticizing me were born.

I stood by hospital beds and hospice beds and emptied bedpans for my dying drag queen friend, and held his hand and rubbed glycerin on his chapped lips. I feel no guilt. John would have some snarky remarks about the noninclusive bill, but he would NEVER have worked to get it defeated, the way the current bunch of activists have done over the past few weeks.

I would love to have a conversation with anyone about incremental legislation, but not if it involves guilt trips.

[robbiej]

Posted: 11/9/07 at 10:37am

I expect nothing less from you than a full-on, Cecil B.-style martyr pageant to justify your vitriol.

I'm thrilled you're happy. I just do not understand you utter contempt (as displayed here) for a segment of our community that has been excluded from moving forward with us.

Honestly...do you really have THAT many trans friends who are making you feel guilty? Or is it other gay folk?

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/9/07 at 10:50am

I have no vitriol for trans people. None. Do you understand that? NONE.

The guilt trips are coming from posters on other boards, most of whom are claiming to be transgendered. But you're right--those are anonymous message boards like this one. Perhaps they're just cross-dressing sock puppets.

And thanks for the "full-on, Cecil B.-style martyr pageant"--I do it all for you, RobbieJ, all for you!

(The chapped lips were for real, though.)

[robbiej]

Posted: 11/9/07 at 10:55am

Anonymous faux-trannies on message boards???

Darlin. Step away from the computer and go have a cigarette. You've crossed over and you need to come back.

I would have thought you would have said, 'I'm thrilled, but I wish our trans friends could join us.' Not calling them 'whining babies.'

Especially now knowing that the whining babies are anonymous faux-trannies on message boards.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/9/07 at 11:05am

Actually, there are real "trans activists" who are very angry about this. And they almost derailed this bill.

[robbiej]

Posted: 11/9/07 at 11:09am

Fully aware...but you don't actually know them...so they can't really make you feel all that guilty. I mean, they're not my mother.

I actually don't have a problem with trans right activists (why the quote?) doing whatever they can to be included in the bill. It's how the process works. And I say good for them for fighting as hard as possible to enjoy the same rights that we were afforded (at least by the House).

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/9/07 at 11:11am

Are we the only two chatting in this thread? How cozy.

Just like the steamroom at the 50th Street Equinox.

[robbiej]

Posted: 11/9/07 at 11:16am

Alas, leaving my cushy job has brought me back to Crunch. But that 42nd Street location is still as hopping as it was back in the day!

[robbiej]

Posted: 11/9/07 at 11:16am

Tra La!

Updated On: 11/9/07 at 11:16 AM

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 11/9/07 at 11:16am

I beg to differ.

[robbiej]

Posted: 11/9/07 at 11:18am

How did I double post??? I didn't click twice.

Borstal...you come with mama...I'll teach you a thing or two!

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/9/07 at 11:23am

I just notice that Papa changed the subject line from Enda to Edna.