Atheists...?- Page 3

[artscallion]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 10:12am

"That's actually not completely true. They could not receive communion without first going to confession. Confession would serve as an absolution and allow them to be received back into the church."

But doesn't confession only work if you confess with the admission that your selective belief paractices are wrong and that you have the intention of correcting/changing them. Otherwise, the moment you leave the booth with your selective beliefs still intact, with no intention of changing them, wouldn't you immediately fall back into the state where you should not receive communion?

[CJR]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 10:21am

Well the whole thing is that the church believes that straying from weekly masses gives you the leeway to sin, as it were. Well, that and you're probably straying from the practice and teachings of God. I don't know what they thought we were doing the other 6 days of the week even if we DO go to church though..... lol

I'm technically, the wrong person to be asking about confession. Catholic as though I may be, I haven't been to confession since I was 10. In Catholic school they made you go once or twice a year.... I remember sitting there with my priest -- who is still my priest now -- having no idea what I should be sorry for. It's one of the many reasons I don't believe in it. If I have something that I'm truly sorry for and believe I need to repent for (like, I have no idea, having an affair with someone. Not saying I did, just giving an example of something that would require repentance in my book), then it's just me and God. My priest telling me to say 50 Hail Marys isn't going to absolve me of that sin. Just make me really bored sitting there saying them.

[jaystarr]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 10:25am

Atheism, as a philosophical view, is the position that either affirms the nonexistence of gods[1] or rejects theism.[2] When defined more broadly, atheism is the absence of belief in deities,[3] alternatively called nontheism.[4] Although atheism is often equated with irreligion, some religious philosophies, such as secular theology and some varieties of Buddhism such as Theravada, either do not include belief in a personal god as a tenet of the religion, or actively teach nontheism.
Many self-described atheists are skeptical of all supernatural beings and cite a lack of empirical evidence for the existence of deities. Others argue for atheism on philosophical, social or historical grounds. Although many self-described atheists tend toward secular philosophies such as humanism[5] and naturalism, there is no one ideology or set of behaviors to which all atheists adhere.[7]The term atheism originated as a pejorative epithet applied to any person or belief in conflict with established religion.[8] With the spread of freethought, scientific skepticism, and criticism of religion, the term began to gather a more specific meaning and has been increasingly used as a self-description by atheists.
(from wikipedia)




Updated On: 12/26/07 at 10:25 AM

[iHeartMyGeek]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 10:33am

Every time I go to Church (which nowadays is mostly for weddings, funerals and baptisms) I tell my mother I can't get Communion, and she makes me do it anyway. I don't believe in the religion, but I would certainly not disrespect it by receiving something considered sacred and holy by the Church when I don't believe in it. I can't remember the last time I went to Confession--it's probably been about five years, since I was confirmed. But I would never consider myself fit to receive Communion.

[Broadway Bound2]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 10:39am

First of all I am Catholic and grew up in a very strict Catholic home where my parents dragged me to Mass each week no matter what. I think that is why I am the way I am now. I am not saying that I don't believe in God, but all those traditions that I grew up with in the Catholic church I find to be rubbish. Confession for one never really made sense to me. Why do I have to confess anything to someone else other the God himself thorugh praying. And saying 10 Hail Marys didn't do bleep for me. As for missing a week of Church being a sin, that to me is another tradition that I really never understood. There I days that I don't feel up to attending Mass so I don't go. It isn't like I set aside that day for sinning because I didn't go, it means I just didn't feel like going that week.

That being said if my parents knew how much of a hethen I was they would hit the ceiling.:)

[Wanna Be A Foster]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 10:39am

Considering Christmas traditions are almost entirely based on the pagan celebration of the winter solstice, one can celebrate "Christmas" without being a Christian.

Christmas is Jesus's birthday. It's a religious holiday.

No matter how you may choose to box it up, it's Jesus Day.

How many Christians who celebrate Christmas even spend a second thinking about Jesus Christ or the "reason for the season"?

It doesn't matter. It is Jesus Day.

Relabel what you want, but it came into being as Jesus Day and that's what it is.

Recognizing Christmas in celebration or observation in any way is in turn giving recognition to a hateful group of people that are trying to take rights away from fellow human beings because they do not fit into specific cardboard boxes.

I find it laughable that the same people on here who promote Jesus Day are the same ones who are up in arms about why there is no separation of church and state and why they are not afforded equal rights to straight people.

[colleen_lee]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 10:45am

"Christmas is Jesus's birthday. It's a religious holiday.

No matter how you may choose to box it up, it's Jesus Day."

Christmas actually isn't Jesus' birthday. All evidence suggests that the man was born in Spring. The date December 25th was chosen during the 4th century to usurp the winter solstice celebration that was quickly growing in popularity. The majority of Christmas traditions including the trees, ornaments, holly, mistletoe and gift giving were directly taken from the pagan tradition.

Christmas for many has become a celebration of the winter season and family. If you do not attend service, take time to reflect in prayer or otherwise remember Christ you are not celebrating any Christian element of Christmas.

Updated On: 12/26/07 at 10:45 AM

[iHeartMyGeek]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 10:46am

Foster, I don't think that's true at all. First of all, while it is "Jesus Day" (though don't get me started on how inaccurate a placement of "Jesus Day" December 25th almost certainly is), Christmas has taken on a lot of different meanings to a lot of different people. It's not all about its Christian origins anymore, especially in the very commercialized society we've developed. And who here has both promoted Christmas and whined about separation of church and state? And for that matter, how do those two relate *at all*?!

[jaystarr]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 10:48am

I personally DO NOT celebrate Christmas for the past two years or so...

I celebrate the holidays bec. it was shoved in to my throat while I was growing up and I was assimilated to this American life that we all know...

I guess.. I am bored during Winter..not much to do..

hey... probbably next year... I wont celebrate it at all... People change you know? for the better !

UNLESS... I can find a new meaning to it.....

J*

Updated On: 12/26/07 at 10:48 AM

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 10:58am

I am Jewish. And to me (and me alone, because I cannot speak to how other people feel) Christmas is most certainly a Christian Holiday.

I do not normally wish people a Merry Christmas because I do not feel like telling them "Happy Birth of your savior day." Happy Holidays, sure. Season's Greeting, why not. But not Merry Christmas. (Though I am never offended when someone wishes me Merry Christmas, when they don't know I am Jewish, I merely wish them a great holiday back).

At its core, the day is the celebration of Jesus' birth. The day may be wrong, but the songs celebrating the birth of Christ kinds of seal the deal on the issue.

Granted, it has become commercialized, and used by business as a means to sell goods, but Christmas, at its core, was supposed to be a celebration for Christians around the world.

So, I agree with WBAF - whether the day is technically accurate is not the point, Christmas is a Christian holiday.

Geek - "Silent Night", "Joy to the World", "O Come All Ye Faithful..." those are evidence enough of what the true meaning of Christmas is supposed to be. Whether it has mutated is irrelevant.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 10:58am

I celebrate Christmas as a time of Joy, not as the birth of an imagined Messiah.

I always had a problem buying into a belief system that was thought of by men to control other men, not allow women any rights, and to force what they felt was acceptable behavior down the above peoples throats.

And the above describes any religion I can think of. Just my 2 cents

[colleen_lee]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 11:00am

""Silent Night", "Joy to the World", "O Come All Ye Faithful..." those are evidence enough of what the true meaning of Christmas is supposed to be. Whether it has mutated is irrelevant. "

Is it irrelevant? Christmas mutated out of pagan tradition, and now it is quickly mutating back to pagan tradition. That is not irrelevant.

[colleen_lee]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 11:04am

An article from last year's Times about Atheism and Christmas

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/17/weekinreview/17kennedy.html?ex=1324011600&en=5617d1d1e70c27d5&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 11:11am

Colleen, I agree, the tree and the timing were from Pagan rituals.

But for me - and I don't really care how other people view it - it has been a Christian celebration.

That is why (though I love them) I will never have a Christmas Tree - though I am fine with other Jews who do.

The timing and some of the rituals may have a Pagan basis, but the holiday itself celebrates the birth of Christ.

Many non-Christians may celebrate it now, but for me, that does not change the original intent of Christmas in the Christian religion.

[jaystarr]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 11:19am

I celebrate Christmas as a time of Joy, not as the birth of an imagined Messiah.

^^^^ I liked what you said .. that was good !

Personally I have no problem with the word Christmas...like what our christian friends would say.. keep CHRIST in Christmas....

I love history too- so I guess... let's keep Christmas, though I would said.. its very alienating to non-christians....but hey... on the side -there is a freedom of religion in United States of America....People can celebrate their Christmas... the only problem is Christianity is a DOMINANT religion in US and there's a tendency that they shoved it in your throat....

but they DO celebrate Christmas in Japan ! and my bestfriend at work is Japanese and she's a non-Chrsitian but celebrate Christmas..not in a religious way!
(and also in China now)

J*


Updated On: 12/26/07 at 11:19 AM

[artscallion]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 11:29am

CJR, I was raised catholic and attended catholic school all the way through high school (they marched us, single file, across the street to confession every week!) Plus, my partner is actually a former catholic priest. So I probably know way too much about the details of it all.

When I reached my teens I began to question how any of the "organized" religious practices applied to my life. Did god really care if I ate meat on Fridays? Did god really not want me, as a gay man, to find love? Did god really think less of women? etc. But I still maintained a belief system that was similar to what you're talking about. A private relationship between me and god. One where I communicated directly and privately with him/her and led my life in a way I thought god would want me to, not according to a book written and interpreted by pious old white men.

I've always had real problems with the integrity of organized religion and continue to think that they are one of mankind's biggest plagues. However, I have no problem with other people having faith, of some sort, in a higher being/power. I just think that when it's personal it is more likely to lead to good. I think the organization of it is what leads to corruption.

In any event, for various reasons, none of them dramatic, I gradually came to believe that there is no god. I don't claim that there is proof that there is no god. But I've also not seen proof that there is a god. And in the face of everything else I know and see, I find no reason to believe.

So I guess I'm more of an agnostic than an atheist. The way I live my life under this is to just ignore the whole notion of god and try to follow the golden rule, something I would be inclined to strive for with or without the existence of god.

Wanna, December is originally the pagan solstice celebration and was around waaay before Jesus came into the picture. Jesus was likely born in April. But, the church, wanting to obliterate pagan beliefs, attempted to take over the solstice celebrations by imposing Jesus' birthday at the same time. Later, the church even adopted the pagan symbols, such as trees, in order to obscure the pagan elements even more. This way, you couldn't even celebrate in a pagan way with a pagan wreath and tree without people interpreting it as participation in, and support for the christian holiday.

So clearly, their plan worked. You are doing exactly what they intended by assuming that everyone who celebrates the holiday, no matter their intention, is supporting the church. Christmas is not a christian holiday; it's a stolen holiday.

[CJR]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 11:30am

Catholicism *is* a predominant religion -- I'll give you that. However, I have found that a lot of people who are passionate about their religion and beliefs have a tendency to shove it down other people's throats. Not everyone, but a lot of people do it. It's not really religion/belief specific. Not for nothing, a perfect example is when the Jehovah's Witnesses used to come a-knocking on my door at 8am on a Saturday and then ARGUE with me over why I was Catholic. I stopped answering the door.

Updated On: 12/26/07 at 11:30 AM

[jaystarr]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 11:37am

and as far as I am concerned...

Jesus Christ was born around April. he was a Jewish philosopher , was considered a rebel against the Romans' rule in Israel during his time..

He was elevated as GOD during the Council of Nisea (Consantine's request to come up with one creed bec. there's a lot of different beliefs of Christianity and ONLY WAY to UNITE his kingdom)

Christ's remains was found..alongside with his family (his mother Mary & his brother Thomas ) and wife Mary Magdalene ...I think there was a documentary about this...

As long as there is suffering, famine, poverty and disease.. THERE WILL BE RELIGION...

and I think I am more of Humanist or Universalist...or whatever the f*** it is !

END OF MY CONTRIBUTION to this thread

One last note : people will always believe what they want to believe !

J*





Updated On: 12/26/07 at 11:37 AM

[artscallion]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 11:40am

"I find it laughable that the same people on here who promote Jesus Day are the same ones who are up in arms about why there is no separation of church and state and why they are not afforded equal rights to straight people.

Actually Wanna, that's what separation of church and state is all about. Allowing people the right to religious freedom and celebration, while keeping religious tenets and morals out of government, keeping people safe from religious oppression. It's not the people who support the church or celebrate religious holidays that are the problem. It's the government that does not honor that seperation and allows religious oppression and morality to infiltrate government that is the problem.

Updated On: 12/26/07 at 11:40 AM

[Prisoner 24601]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 11:47am

I think I was eight when I gave up on Christianity. I had been going to church, but my mom told me later that she was only taking me to give me a choice when I wanted to decide on a faith; neither she nor my dad were religious. Church was nice and all, but I didn't get it. I don't call myself an atheist because that label seems to have a stigma around it just as strong as the one surrounding some Christians these days. I don't "believe that there is no god," I just don't believe in the Judeo-Christian god. But I love Christmas.

[sweetestsiren]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 12:18pm

. I don't call myself an atheist because that label seems to have a stigma around it just as strong as the one surrounding some Christians these days.

So why don't you stand up for your beliefs and help destigmatize atheism? I get it, you don't believe that there is no god, but you shouldn't let the stigma surrounding atheism be the reason you don't identify as one. I'm so tired of having to identify with watered-down versions of my beliefs because people have such a knee-jerk reaction to finding out that you're -- gasp! -- an atheist. I refuse to do it anymore.

[Pippin]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 12:29pm

"As long as there is suffering, famine, poverty and disease.. THERE WILL BE RELIGION..."


OR as long as there is RELIGION, there will be suffering, poverty, and disease.

[Wanna Be A Foster]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 12:45pm

Wanna, December is originally the pagan solstice celebration and was around waaay before Jesus came into the picture. Jesus was likely born in April.

"December" and "April" are months on the Christian calendar.

[Craig]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 12:47pm

I think some confuse athiesm with agnosticism. If you aren't sure or don't care whethere there is a higher power - you're agnostic. If you believe without a doubt nothing exists, you're athiest.

Athiesm is pretty concrete. If you just don't practice or not into religion or whatnot - I wouldn't really say you're athiest. You might feel otherwise but that's my opinion. Apathy doesn't equate with a decision or absolute belief.

[MrMidwest]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 12:54pm

I call myself an apatheist - Bill Maher