Atheists...?- Page 4

[colleen_lee]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 12:55pm

"Wanna, December is originally the pagan solstice celebration and was around waaay before Jesus came into the picture. Jesus was likely born in April.

"December" and "April" are months on the Christian calendar."

Actually, the months on our calendar also predate Christ. They were put in place by the Romans.

Historical years were revised by the church during the reign of Pope John I in the attempt to establish a feast calendar. They revised the system to coincide with the birth of Christ even though we now know that they likely dated the birth of Christ about 5 years too late.

Though originally devised by the church it is now the calendar followed by most Western countries.

The church has provided us with a lot of innovations and traditions but that no longer means they are Christian in nature.

Western music is rooted in the church, should all non-Christians denounce and devise new modes, forms and systems of notation?

Updated On: 12/26/07 at 12:55 PM

[iHeartMyGeek]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 1:03pm

Mr. Midwest, that was a great clip. I agree with Maher on a lot of what he said.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 1:11pm

Many people view Christmas as a Christian holiday. Others view it as a more generic, time for families and friends.

There does not appear to be a universal truth here - because how one views Christmas is shaped by life experiences and the culture one is raised in.

If you find Christmas to be something other than the celebration of the birth of Christ, good for you.

But, some of us are just as entitled to view it as the celebration of the birth of Christ.

[jaystarr]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 1:25pm

Xmas is a day to watch a movie(s) (or horrible movie(s) in my case ) bec. everything is f**** closed !

[buffyactsing]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 3:13pm

I'm agnostic, though apparently I'm just as evil...

I kept praying for certain changes to my life will all of my might as a child...and nothing ever happened so...

I don't know that I for certain DON'T believe in some higher power, but I'm leaning in that direction. I so WANT to believe in a God, but can't.

[CJR]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 3:53pm

I don't believe that you can just pray for things and they happen.

I'm all about the Gandhi quote: "Be the change you wish to see in the world." In my life, I tie it into the Serenity Prayer: "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference."

I prayed for lots of changes in my home life and situation as I was growing up.... and not a one of them changed until I was able to begin making changes myself. I believe God is a guide. It's not His duty to change things or make things not happen. But I do believe that in praying on things or praying for things, most of the time, through that prayer, you will find the clarity you need. I almost always have.

Updated On: 12/26/07 at 03:53 PM

[DayDreamer]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 4:02pm

CJR - you have clearly expressed what I have been unable to put into words myself.

[CJR]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 4:12pm

I'm glad I could help, DD

[Roninjoey]

Posted: 12/27/07 at 12:53am

"Let's say, for the sake of argument that all you atheists are correct and there is no higher power; There is no God of any kind. What makes you so sure that there would be no death, destruction, war, or terrible sickness? Do you honestly believe that?"

I think this is a crucial misunderstanding. An atheist doesn't reject god (or a gods system). God doesn't even come into the picture. We operate in a world without the belief in a higher power.

I imagine that there is either a reason for why things happen or that things happen because of chance and trial and error--not that it's "God's Will". There would still be death, sickness... these are concepts. Things that can't be created. The consequence of and natural part of existence. How could anyone create a concept? I love in order to survive.

I became an agnostic when I rejected the god/s that are commonly believed in (at a very young age). I became an atheist when I realized that once you can divine the cause for an effect, you take away the mystery. My senses and my experiences tell me that this universe owes a lot more to chance than design, and where design exists it is the product or response to chance. It's a mystery with an answer. The universe was sparked by something, but that something came from somewhere. The answer is probably a lot more complicated, and sometimes we're better off with the mystery.

I don't believe in things that aren't likely. I'm won't say what is or what isn't but belief in God rests entirely on faith. There's no evidence and the beliefs that support faith contradict one another and are created by humans (usually crazy). I do find religion interesting theory the same way I find string theory interesting. So, I am an atheist. It's not even choosing to disbelieve in god... I simply don't.

Of course atheism based on science is a belief system, but it's a belief that finds its feet on the ground and makes its decisions based on reasonable evidence.

[maya5892]

Posted: 12/27/07 at 1:54am

I'm Jewish by culture, atheist by religion.

You see, my whole family is Jewish, so I "have" to be. I'm just surrounded by it all the time. But as I grew up, I started to think. Is it REALLY possible for their to be a God? No.

There are so many different religons and beliefs. How can all of them be right, while contradicting each other? It just doesn't make sense. And the logic in the Bible is outdated.

I just feel that logically, there really can't be a God. And all that religion has done in the past is create so many problems. If there was no religion, everything would be simpler. Refer to the song "Imagine".

Really though, I'm very certain of my atheism. I will probably never be able to be convinced otherwise.

And I'm only 15.

[Color and Light]

Posted: 12/27/07 at 3:06am

Faith in a Higher Power is such an interesting and difficult thing for me to wrap my brain around, whether we're talking about the subject in general or in terms of my own personal beliefs. I do identify as an Atheist, though it's taken years to sort through everything and come to this conclusion. I do not "hate God" or want to cause some sort of "religious anarchy", as I've been asked before by some people. I just believe that there is no higher power, and that we simply exist because of a long, timeless line of scientific coincidence. As Andrew Bird put it "you're what happens when two substances collide/and by all accounts you really should have died." I believe that humans are the ones in control of their fate. I believe that religion came from a need to fill in the gaps of what was previously inexplicable.

I don't hold it against anyone who feels differently--I have too many good friends and respect a good many people who do. I'm absolutely fascinated by religion itself and think it to be one of the most (if not the primary) influential power in shaping human history, and studying it as such has been one of things that ultimately led me to my own personal conclusions about a higher power.

I guess I'll also add that I was also raised Roman Catholic by a very liberal Catholic mother and a fickle Catholic father (as in he waffled, though became much more stricter as he got closer to death). My ass was dragged to mass and CCD every week, and as a kid, I'll admit that I actually lapped up a lot of the showy bits of church. All those seemingly mystical rituals, the choirs and organs, the dressing up--it was like theater to me, I have to admit, even if I never really got the story so well when I was little.

I was lucky enough to grow up in a pretty religiously diverse neighborhood and go to religiously diverse schools. As I got older and got into more arguments on the matter, I started asking myself who had the right answers if I really didn't? Looking back, these friendly arguments came from really basic, childish "Well, I'm right, neener neener" ideas, but it was enough to set me wondering. I think it mostly began around the time I was 10.

I'll concede that this sort of changing in thinking coincided with a lot of personal tragedy--starting from the time I was nine and spanning the next three years, I had a dear family member commit suicide, lost a good friend who choked on her own tongue during a seizure, and watched my father, my best friend, die from cancer. I can't say it was the fact they all died in decidedly terrible ways that told me there was no god, because I still knew that my life was good in spite of everything. But it had me thinking a lot about life and mortality, and I eventually became frustrated by what I'd been getting from religion--mostly a lot of talk with out any concrete answers, or so I felt. I've also really loved science from a very small age, so I suppose the simplest thing to say is that science gave me the most concrete answers to my tough questions.

I'm not really gonna claim to be a professor of religious and philosophical studies, but there you go. I'm just letting some excessive wassailing do the speaking for me. Probably a bad idea. Cheers!

[jeniferrenepatricia]

Posted: 12/27/07 at 3:21am

Thanks for the great posts, CJR!!! You said everything I wanted to say and more!!

[Wanna Be A Foster]

Posted: 12/27/07 at 6:47am

Thanks for sharing all of that, Color and Light.

[Color and Light]

Posted: 12/27/07 at 8:59am

Well, thank you for reading it all, Foster. I took a nap and then woke up to only realize I wrote a personal manifesto. I guess I'm touchy about the subject, because it started a household shouting match between my brother and I on Christmas morning. Heavens!

[Behind_the_Spotlight]

Posted: 12/28/07 at 1:13am

On the subject of Christmas... There were maybe two in my childhood that involved Jesus at all. My mom just really liked Santa Claus. She collected Santa dolls and had them all over the house.

I celebrate on December 25th because I have off work/school and it is the day the rest of my family gathers together. If those two things happened on another date, I wouldn't celebrate "Christmas" at all.

CJR... what you are talking about is one of the most interesting things about believers to me, being an atheist myself. Whenever a believer of any denomination tells me they couldn't have done such and such without the aid of a higher power, my first instinctive thought is "but you did." I'm not putting down believers, because I understand that sometimes life can get so overwhelming the idea of a god on your side can help people get through the hard times. But to me, every great accomplishment is really the inner strength of the believer shining through.

I hope that resembled coherent. My thoughts are disorganized.

[CJR]

Posted: 12/31/07 at 1:42pm

It's not so much that I couldn't have done whatever *without* the higher power..... it's more the fact that the deep belief aided in my strength in accomplishing it.

[AbbaRabbit]

Posted: 12/31/07 at 2:16pm

i think i was an atheist for a long time... it was actually something bad happening that made me start believing in... something. i dont know what.
all i know is that when a friend of mine was killed in high school in 2003, i felt like i *needed* to believe in something... even if just to comfort myself with something like "it's ok, he's in heaven now and he's watching over everyone."
sometimes i feel silly for thinking like that, but when i lost my grandfather in march, i think having that little bit of faith helped me.