Big 3 Bailout - The Senate Bails On It- Page 3

[KrissySim]

Posted: 12/13/08 at 3:22pm

Co-ops and unions work on the same principle - they don't clash.

There are some notable differences. Unions are usually a response to big business and the corporate world. Coops work with independent entrepreneurs.

And yes, JustAGuy , I do think that $36. should be minimum, $36 or its equivalent. This doesn't mean that a small pizza business should pay the worker $36 hr, but the pizza worker should get that much at least. This is where the government should step in and provide health insurance, housing & education subsidies and other things to compensate the full time worker in a sub-living wage job.

And no, workers in these poorly paying jobs are not always uneducated. I know some very creative & intelligent & educated people who've had to work in these jobs!

[JustAGuy]

Posted: 12/13/08 at 4:01pm

"And yes, JustAGuy , I do think that $36. should be minimum, $36 or its equivalent. This doesn't mean that a small pizza business should pay the worker $36 hr, but the pizza worker should get that much at least."

If not the business owner...then who will pay his salary? Where will this money come from?

"And no, workers in these poorly paying jobs are not always uneducated. I know some very creative & intelligent & educated people who've had to work in these jobs!"

I never said they were uneducated...or unintelligent or lacking in creativity. When I was in high school I worked minimum wage jobs...but I also realized that if I wanted a higher salary I was going to have to get the training.

Good luck with your $36 an hour minimum wage plan. But I wouldn't expect everyone else's wages to remain the same...somehow I don't think the entry level attorney is going to stand for making the same as the pizza delivery person. I know my hourly rate will definitely be going up.

[KrissySim]

Posted: 12/13/08 at 4:22pm

If not the business owner...then who will pay his salary? Where will this money come from?

I answered that here:
This doesn't mean that a small pizza business should pay the worker $36 hr, but the pizza worker should get that much at least. This is where the government should step in and provide health insurance, housing & education subsidies and other things to compensate the full time worker in a sub-living wage job.

The difference is that the lawyer owns the house, and a nice one. The sub-living wage earner partly owns a middle class house (not a government housing project) and the government partly owns it and the rates and terms are different.

It's a purely intellectual argument on my part, of course, but my premise is that every full time worker should earn a living. You seem to feel that it's OK for people to work full time and not make a living. I find that to be obscene.

[JustAGuy]

Posted: 12/13/08 at 4:58pm

"I answered that here:
This doesn't mean that a small pizza business should pay the worker $36 hr, but the pizza worker should get that much at least. This is where the government should step in and provide health insurance, housing & education subsidies and other things to compensate the full time worker in a sub-living wage job."

You answered that the government should step in, but where does the MONEY come from to provide the education subsidies,the nice house as opposed to the middle class house, (whatever that is) or any house.

I'm all for socialized medicine I think everyone should be entitled to excellent health care. But...that's just about the limit to my socialized feelings. I think it's absurd to think that the government owes you a nice house. Do they owe you a new car too, so you can get to work? Or maybe free subway and bus fare? Or tickets to a Broadway show...so you can broaden your cultural horizons. Where does it stop?

"You seem to feel that it's OK for people to work full time and not make a living. I find that to be obscene."

No...I think that people deserve a living wage. But $36 dollars an hour is more than a living wage.

I don't think a high schooler... or anyone for that matter deserves $36 an hour for working at McDonalds or delivering pizza or packing groceries at the local supermarket. I don't think that you can equate someone who has worked for a degree and has specialized training in a particular field to someone who has no special skills and expect them to both be paid the same. It makes no sense to me. It doesn't mean that the person without those skills isn't worthy of a living wage...but if the minimum wage earner...gets the nice house and the education subsidies...where is the incentive to be anything more than a minimum wage earner? I think taking the incentive to achieve out of the equation is obscene as well.

Can you imagine paying these two $70,000 a year, for their stellar work at KFC?

Updated On: 12/13/08 at 04:58 PM

[Jack King]

Posted: 12/13/08 at 10:55pm

:) Krissy. The $36 an hour is a great notice. Then how much would my pizza pie be? $50?

I remain,

jk

[danmag]

Posted: 12/14/08 at 7:13am

OMG JustAGuy! Are those really the KFC sink bathers??? Love that pic (although that water looks awfully cloudy - ewwww)! Skank-arific!

Updated On: 12/14/08 at 07:13 AM

[tommyboy]

Posted: 12/14/08 at 8:08am

Will somebody please take Jackkingoff this board?

[Jack King]

Posted: 12/14/08 at 11:58am

Can't stand the truth?

BTW I get my pizzas at Rainbow Foods. Five for $3.00. Don't need no tommyboy to deliver them.

Eat your heart out.

And God Bless You, anyway.

Don't be odd.
Get with God.

[tommyboy]

Posted: 12/14/08 at 12:05pm

Jack -- when I deliver, I ain't pizzas.

EDIT: Jack -- why is it when your comments on other threads, you seem to be reasonable, common sense kind of guy? Updated On: 12/14/08 at 12:05 PM

[tommyboy]

Posted: 12/14/08 at 12:17pm

It is not a bailout -- it is a LOAN. And there is a presidence for it. The government loaned Iaccoca and Chrysler and it was paid back with interest. The taxpayers actually made money!

[Jack King]

Posted: 12/14/08 at 1:28pm

tommyboy, you just don't get it. Deeee-troit can get out of paying back any loan. They can completely, legally default. They can declare bankruptcy or any number of legal means of not paying.

[tommyboy]

Posted: 12/14/08 at 10:45pm

Jack -- Only people from the south spell Detroit with EEEE. Is Sen. Shelby polishing your knoBBBB? Or your his???

[Yawper]

Posted: 12/15/08 at 12:06am

"tommyboy, you just don't get it. Deeee-troit can get out of paying back any loan. They can completely, legally default. They can declare bankruptcy or any number of legal means of not paying."

Now that sure sounds like a reputable strategy, doesn't it? Screw your business associates, employees, and retirees - who cares? Silly Big 3 actually trying to take care of all of its people without dumping them onto taxpayers. Why can't they be more like Wal*mart, paying poverty level wages and teaching employees how to get on Medicaid?


Nice program GM is piloting to try to get customers financing since banks aren't lending - If you belong to a credit union in MI, OH, IL, or IN there's a special deal available for you -
http://www.lovemycreditunion.org/Invest_In_America_Auto_Discounts_For_Consumers_35.html

Ford and Chrysler aren't on board yet but they're working on it!

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 12/15/08 at 9:36am

i pray that the democrats take up this $36 an hour living wage cause. it will ensure a swift return to gop power.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 12/15/08 at 10:49am

Hell, if I can get that, why the heck would I kill myself working for my corporate overlords?

That, or my salary will go up, which will cause inflation, which ...

Back to the 36 dollars an hour - someone must have been going after their stash before they posted.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 12/15/08 at 11:59am

nope, ywiw, everyone will earn $36/hr. no exceptions. everyone earns the same thing and everyone is happy. peace reigns. there are no poor because everyone earns the same. everyone has homes and healthcare. there is no suffering and the children all sign hymns to mother earth. you corporate fatcats just refuse to let the peoples' voices be heard with your fatcat greedy ways.

[Yawper]

Posted: 12/16/08 at 9:03am

On Monday Toyota announced they expect to have an operating loss of about 100 billion yen (that's over US$1 billion) for the second half of their fiscal year and they will not be opening their new Mississippi plant as scheduled.

[danmag]

Posted: 12/16/08 at 11:42am

Well, my old car just died, so I will be doing my part to help the auto industry this weekend when I have to go out and buy a new car.

[KrissySim]

Posted: 12/16/08 at 4:27pm

Interesting to see where this thread went in my absence. XD

The temperature suddenly dropped and we had snow during the middle of a shoot. We decided to take advantage of the weather (cold +snow) and shoot while we had it, setting up tents and screens, shooting around the clock. It was a big operation It was a kick when we were filming a night-for-day shot and coyotes started howling outside the "tent". I'm not sure if we can work that in. Now we're awaiting a new snow on Wednesday to complete the sequence.

Anyway, $36. an hr = good starting pay. Governments can do that if they can bankroll prolonged unwinnable wars. And no, I wasn't into a "stash". XD

And Mambo, I think if everyone got $36. minimum everyone would love the Administration who did it. And yes, nice new cars for everyone. Vote for ME.

Perhaps you can guess that I'm having a good time right now.

And I'll remind you that I am a business owner, I pay my help well, though not quite up to my $36. minimum goal, but it does foster a loyal, dedicated crew.

[KrissySim]

Posted: 12/16/08 at 4:27pm

accidental double-post :P Updated On: 12/17/08 at 04:27 PM

[Yawper]

Posted: 12/16/08 at 4:32pm

"Nice program GM is piloting to try to get customers financing since banks aren't lending - If you belong to a credit union in MI, OH, IL, or IN there's a special deal available for you -
http://www.lovemycreditunion.org/Invest_In_America_Auto_Discounts_For_Consumers_35.html

Ford and Chrysler aren't on board yet but they're working on it!"

Chrysler signed an even broader program today - their deal is for credit unions in 12 states!
http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081216/AUTO01/812160428

(screw the banks)

[JustAGuy]

Posted: 12/16/08 at 5:21pm

"Anyway, $36. an hr = good starting pay. Governments can do that if they can bankroll prolonged unwinnable wars."

And look at the now incredible National Debt and deficit that the government has run up because of bankrolling that ridiculous war. We're going to be attempting to pay that off for decades, at the cost of social programs that would actually benefit low income and minimum wage earners.

Updated On: 12/16/08 at 05:21 PM

[KrissySim]

Posted: 12/16/08 at 5:31pm

I agree, JustAGuy , the real world and the ideal world don't often tally.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 12/16/08 at 5:45pm

Anyway, $36. an hr = good starting pay.

On what planet? Even most college educated people I know don't make that much money.

[KrissySim]

Posted: 12/17/08 at 1:58pm

I think JustAGuy got my point, Phyllis Rogers Stone. To live the "American dream" now, to own a home, drive a decent car, raise a family and educate them, you now need a minimum of $36. hr. whether one earns it or two parents earn that together. If two need to work to earn that, children are left alone or in "day care" centers away from a parent during a crucial time of their development.