Canadian Election- Page 2

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 6/24/04 at 11:11am

Papa, I thought Rush and Coulter were the closest living thing we had to Jesus and the Virgin Mary these days.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/24/04 at 11:37am

dontchu be blasphemin', bway. the good lord ain't been a'smitin' much but dontchu go tempting him ta start slingin' around them doggone lightnin' bolts like zeus on a bad day. oops, now i've gone and done it too! mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

what's with you and rush and ann? i don't listen to or read either of 'em, does it mean i have to surrender my junior fascist card? you know it's funny, but my democratic friends always seem to know more about what the right wing demagogues are saying than my republican friends do. maybe that explains the right wing's ratings dominance on the airwaves: all those democrats listening!

[judy_in_disguise]

Posted: 6/24/04 at 11:46am

Papa,
Forgive my boldness in "speaking for all of Canada". Yeesh, people like you will jump on ANYTHING won't you?
I'm no expert on American politics and I don't pretend to be. But even just from being around here for a while, it's clear that A LOT (not ALL, I should say- in case you'd like to jump all over that too) of BWW posters are NOT Bush fans.
And every Canadian I have spoken to about George W. is not a fan. Have I spoken to all of Canada? No. But when we have accusatiosn from the Liberals condemning Conservative leader Stephen Harper as "the Canadian Bush", it does give you a GENERAL perception of Canada's GENERAL feeling towards GW.

[Zola Q. LaPlaya]

Posted: 6/24/04 at 11:48am

How long would it take to speak to "all of Canada" anyway? In your answer, please factor in hockey time, ice fishing breaks, and foraging for food.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/24/04 at 11:50am

hmmm, i always thought "the canadian bush" was the expos.

zola, u get a kiss on the cheek.

[judy_in_disguise]

Posted: 6/24/04 at 11:53am

haha Zola, I posted that last one before reading your ice hockey and fish dig.
It'd probably take a few hours, everyone here knows everyone else so news travels pretty quickly.
By the way, your cousin Jimmy from Ituna says hi.

[TorontoBoy]

Posted: 6/24/04 at 11:54am

As a fellow Canucklehead, it seems to me that we have no choice in this election. We must vote for the lesser of all the evils. The only choice to me is Paul Martin (Liberal) A Democrat for my American friends :)
Harper is as scary as George W is. I don't think we have a choice this time around IMHO.

[judy_in_disguise]

Posted: 6/24/04 at 11:59am

You're right, we really DON'T have much of a choice in this election.
However, a lot can be said about Harper as well. If you can see through the Liberal ad campagin, his merits are there.
But so are Martin's.
I'm sure you're well educated on all of it. I know everyone who is well educated on the matter will make the right decision for them. I just fear not enough people put enough time into learning about the party platforms and such.
And I wish the commercials had more about the PLATFORMS, and less attacking of other parties.

[TorontoBoy]

Posted: 6/24/04 at 12:08pm

I agree Judy, so many are apathetic to what happens in this country. Canada is thought of as BEIGE or ECRU, take your pick........lol.
So many people don't care or won't vote, it's very sad.
We have the freedom to vote we should ALL exercise it.
I believe its in Australia, where if you don't vote you get fined. Too bad Canada's population is too big for that to happen.

[judy_in_disguise]

Posted: 6/24/04 at 12:27pm

this is a totally uneducated question, but isn't Australia's pop similar to Canada's? I may be completley off.
Although that is an excellent idea.
Being 19...and a student at Queens...you can imagine the campaigning for the youth vote that is going on. Only 25% of Canadians aged 18-25 vote. In the provincial election, my boyfriend (who's 24) couldn't even tell me what MPP stood for (in his defense, he IS an animator- they live in a world of their own).
Still, I find it very upsetting that so many young people are so apathetic. It makes you wonder if they will ever care, or if voting will die out all together.
We really are killing democracy by not getting out there. It's frustrating. This is the one chance we get every four years to have a say in the way our country is run, and so many people just let it slip by.

[Broadwaybaby614]

Posted: 6/24/04 at 2:11pm

We have the same problem here in America with people not caring. It makes me angry, because if they cared enough to vote, it might ACTUALLY make a difference. They say "Oh, one vote doesn't make a difference." And yeah, they're right, but I'm pretty sure that Florida was "won" by a few thousand votes. That's not very many people. If more had cared, America may not be in such a bad situation.

Oh, and whoever it was that said Canada had a crappy economy...yes, that may be so, but ours ain't doing so well either. And elderly people in your country don't really have to choose between paying for food and paying for their medication. I wish the US was a Socialist country.

Haha, that reminds me...on the subject of ignorant Americans, my 9th grade government teacher spent a whole class period once trying to convince me that Canada is a communist nation. God I hated that woman.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/24/04 at 2:35pm

"whoever it was that said [c]anada had a crappy economy...yes, that may be so, but ours ain't doing so well either."

oh, i don't know about that, 614. the economy's added 1.1 million new jobs thus far this year. the economy grew at a 4.4 percent annual rate in the first quarter of this year and is expected to continue as the markets accept the recovery as real. we went through an economic double whammy: first we had the dot com bust as everyone came back down to earth about the internet, and then there was that little thing where the world trade center (say those three words with me slowly) was completely destroyed in an unprecedented terrorist attack. those types of things kinda tend to depress an economy.

the trouble in florida was not voter turn-out but faulty ballots that led to confusion and ultimately court decisions. who's to say a higher turn-out would not have favored bush?

socialism, huh? practice your arabic and learn your qur'an.

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 6/24/04 at 2:46pm

Yikes, when did this thread get hijacked?

Last time I compared Canadians to Americans, I got flamed by papalovesmambo, so I better be careful here. I see he's pulling out that "muslim woman" example again....for goodness' sake, let go! (And I don't see how you can criticize Canada and still make a case of Bush, but I digress.)

To answer Broadwaybaby614: most Canadians are very critical of Americans (then again, most Canadians are critical in general, but that's another topic). A lot of the things Canadians cherish about their country are in conscious contrast to the US: public health care, bilingualism, multiculturalism (without the melting pot, that is), etc.

Of course, Canada's not perfect, and it's hard to talk about Canada as a unified whole because every region is very different - culturally and socially - from each other. That's the main issue in Canada: no unifying national identity. But I think it lends to an ongoing awareness and critical thought of our actions and how we are perceived.

So how do Canadians perceive Americans? These are generalizations, but they're understood across the country:
- Americans are seen as self-interested and self-centered
- Sensationalistic
- Religious puritans
- Fiscally and socially conservative
- Power-hungry and monopolizing
- Unfriendly and paranoid
- Motivated by fear

Again, not everyone believes these things, and they're constantly debated. Whether or not people believe them, though, they still constitute a well-known and understood view of Americans.

Updated On: 6/24/04 at 02:46 PM

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/24/04 at 2:52pm

from your perspective, blue, from your perspective. unless you start citing some polls or studies, all of this talk of the general "what canadians think" is nothing more than what you have seen in your personal experience. a nice qualifier is "the people i've spoken with see americans like" or "from what i have seen" because otherwise you are assuming a lot more power for yourself than actually exists.

and i will not let the muslim issue go. fer chrissakes even the french had sense enough not to encourage a community that is already anti-assimilationaist to begin with to grow even more insular by allowing them to set up religious tribunals that will de-facto control community life. i'm sorry but that's just inconceivable.

[Broadwaybaby614]

Posted: 6/24/04 at 3:08pm

Blue,

I agree with you completely. Especially in regards to values. As far as the bilingualism goes...

I know Quebec is different from the rest of Canada, but I go there quite often and I am amazed at the fact that almost everybody, at least in Quebec City, speaks at least two languages. I met a group of guys who were fluent in English, French, AND Spanish. I was on a cruise and met a girl from PEI. I asked her if she spoke French and she said she did, and that she had been taught to speak it, write it, and learn about the culture in school starting in second grade. Now, I don't know if that's just HER school, or if the system is just better there. I know that in my high school and in many high schools in the US, you don't really start learning a language until high school, and you only get four years out of it.

I know Papa is going to have SOMETHING to say about this, and I don't blame him, because everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, I think that the reason we are so ignorant is because we cannot be bothered. We think we are the only people in the world, so why bother to learn to speak fluently in someone else's native language?

I'm going to get yelled at for that one. And I know not everyone in America feels that way, because I don't and there are 300 million people in the US.


I look at it this way:

I once said, "See, Canada's nice because they're never being attacked by terrorists..."

My teacher said, "No, that's because we protect them."

"FROM WHAT?" I said. "When was the last time you saw news footage of people burning the Canadian flag and shouting 'Death to Canada!!! Capatalistic pigs!!! Canada will pay!!!'???"

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/24/04 at 3:28pm

some other neat facts about canada:

its population is roughly equivalent to california (technically cali's got 'em beat by a few million but who's counting)

approximately 90% of the population of canada lives within 160 km of the us border

canada's chief of state is still officially queen elizabeth the 2nd

[judy_in_disguise]

Posted: 6/24/04 at 3:38pm

your point, Papa? Interesting facts but hardly relevant.
And Blue, I like you. Papa just likes to make people think he's smart. It's all rather cute, actually.
Especially this:
fer chrissakes even the french had sense enough not to encourage a community that is already anti-assimilationaist to begin with to grow even more insular by allowing them to set up religious tribunals that will de-facto control community life.
Right. That's why the French have been trying, since the birth of Canada, to SEPARATE!! That's why we have a federal party, who has served as the official opposition in the past, that exists solely to create a FRENCH nation-state, assimilatory and all. Albeit, relgion does not play much of a part (although arguably, the vast majority of French Canadians are Catholic...that's besides the point), I find it amusing that Papa thinks they don't encourage a "community that is already anti-assmilationist to begin". But then, Papa clearly knows SO MUCH about Canada now doesn't he?
Pray tell Papa, how did you become such an expert? I mean, OBVIOUSLY I'm too uneducated to even wager a guess that Americans dislike Bush......
Updated On: 6/24/04 at 03:38 PM

[TorontoBoy]

Posted: 6/24/04 at 3:41pm

And..........we have funny named money such as the loonie ($1 coin) and the twonie (sp) the $2 coin. The rest of our money comes in a variety of colors. Some people have referred to our currency as Monopoly money........lol.
Amazing stat that California's population is greater then the entire population of Canada, considering we are the third largest country in the world.

[Zola Q. LaPlaya]

Posted: 6/24/04 at 3:42pm

Size doesn't matter. Ask Phantom2.

[Broadwaybaby614]

Posted: 6/24/04 at 3:44pm

Yes, Papa, your point please?

And TorontoBoy, I LIKE your money. It's interesting. I think OUR new $20 bills look more like Monopoly money than yours does.

[judy_in_disguise]

Posted: 6/24/04 at 3:48pm

I'm a fool when it comes to American money.
I'll be down in the States, and have a wallet full of cash, and think I'm still well off. Because in Canada, that wallet of cash could be 5, 10, 20 dollar bills.
Upon closer examination I realize they're all $1 bills and I have a grand $10 left to my name.
What a headache! hehe.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/24/04 at 3:59pm

point one - yer not even as big as a freakin' state! it's apples to oranges economically to compare the united states with a gdp of $10.98 trillion with canada's $967 billion. to assume that what works for a relatively small (in geopolitical terms) population could work with one 10 times as large and 50 tiumes more diverse is sheer folly. it's really easy to look up and say, oh yeah, nobody wants to bother canada. well, duh, they have little or no international clout whatsoever. they're the bastard child of an unholy union of the brits and french. but since they have no military to speak of, why bother when they're practically (with nafta) the 51st state anyway, how would they incur the wrath of anyone. it's like the south koreans who pretend that north korea has stayed above the 38th parallel for 50 years becuase it's such a good neighbor.

point two - last time i read, quebec separtists or even roman catholic crusaders were not vowing to fight until the world was french or catholic, unlike so many of the more strident members of the muslim community. when was the last time a guy from alberta was beheaded in quebec simply for being from alberta? but it's all the same thing ain't it? come talk to me in a few years when sharia law spreads and there's two systems of justice in canada, one for muslim and one for non-muslims. oh wait, you're so confused you already have two already, well, make way for the third.

and torontoboy, that's landmass calculation alone. what'd ya think that you were third behind china and india?

[TorontoBoy]

Posted: 6/24/04 at 4:03pm

Papa: Should have clarified, third in land mass....that's it. We are not high on any type of list except maybe how much we pay in taxes, but thats a separate story.

[Broadwaybaby614]

Posted: 6/24/04 at 4:12pm

Ouch. That hurt, Papa, and I'm not even CANADIAN. Since you're going to go and talk about an entire nation you don't live in that way, let me say that your attitude is exactly what I'm talking about. You seem to think that Canada is a little s*** country, and the United States is the greatest country in the world, yes? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Well...that's unfortunately a very American thing to say. In case you haven't noticed the only country who thinks that the United States is the greatest country in the world is, guess who...THE UNITED STATES...

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/24/04 at 4:16pm

well, guess what, 614, i think if you went around the world and did a litle more research in places where the news media's not got hot spots, you'd find that the ol' us of a is not quite as hated as you think. why else are people still beating down our doors to get in? why are the students of iran clamoring for intervention and support there where the mullahs are cracking down on them? and yes i do think the united states is the greatest country on the face of the earth and i don't see why anyone could imagine otherwise, although i'll make allowances that a good deal of people out there might feel the same way about their countries too. you seem to think that the united states is a pretty awful place. i won't make the argument that if it's so bad you can leave, but i will wager that you are pretty young and still have a lot of the world yet to experience. perhaps that will open your eyes. if not, well, stupidity needs martyrs too, i guess.

Updated On: 6/24/04 at 04:16 PM