DOWNTON ABBEY Season 4 Discussion Thread - SPOILERS WITHIN — Page 3

"He would start things, but nothing came to fruition, especially with him telling Lord Grantham about Branson having the school teacher in the upper level of the house."

This was a complete waste of time. A writer shouldn't drop this in the final episode. It will be forgotten by next season. And I'll bet they will jump the show by several months or a year. So what was the purpose of that other than to fill time.

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Actually it's been happening throughout the entire series. Mrs. Hughes beats breast cancer in just one week. Mrs. Patmore beats blindness in one week. Mr. Bates has been healed of a serious limp.

Jullian Fellowes has no character consistency.

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Addy, I had no idea we were getting an edited version of Downton Abbey. My local PBS was running a drive at the end of last night's episode, and I was so tempted to get all four seasons with a donation.

Don't get me wrong with my comments, I still adore this show.

I was wondering about Bates as well. Does he commit justifiable murder (in his eyes)?!

They definitely need another Mrs. O'Brien character. Thomas being nasty on his own just doesn't work. I forgot what he did, but isn't Lord Grantham indebted to him for some good deed Thomas did? Then again, Lord Grantham hinted that he preferred Bates as his valet when he returned from the US.

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Double Post

Updated On: 2/24/14 at 07:13 PM

But that may have been just between him and Cora. I actually thought last night's episode was kind of boring. And unfortunately, I have to watch it again. I got a little confused during the letter plot. I was confusing the younger dark haired girl with the older.

Yes, that was between Thomas Barrow and Cora, but I thought she also mentioned something to Lord Grantham about this (in terms of holding Thomas in their favor).

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I don't think it will happen right a way but I think eventually Mrs.Hughes and Mr.Carson are gonna 'hook up'. They seem to admire each other and they are both likeable characters (unless they decide to go with a very 'Remains of the Day' approach). Not sure what Thomas has on Baxter but I think a love interest would be nice. They need to add some more downstairs help. Now that Alfred is gone we need someone other than Jimmy,who I can not stand.

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Updated On: 2/24/14 at 10:44 PM

I thought this season was, as Besty said, pretty inert and uninvolving. The first half hour of this episode was pretty dull -- nothing really happened for a long time.

I liked the letter-retrieval plot, but it was like a light-hearted caper movie got dropped into the middle of Downton Abbey.

Supposedly, the first two seasons had more scenes in the UK version than the US version, but for the last two seasons, the US versions are longer.

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Updated On: 2/24/14 at 11:45 PM

I'm such a sucker for British period dramas and have kept tuning in week after week, but the sloppiness of the writing has gone from occasional in season 1 to consistently present in season 4. I think Julian Fellowes is a talented man and especially love Gosford Park, for which he won a richly deserved Oscar, but by now he'd demonstrated that he simply doesn't have the chops to sustain quality writing over such a long period. But who does? Matt Weiner doesn't write Mad Men by himself, nor did Vince Gilligan write every episode of Breaking Bad, nor David Milch write every episode of Deadwood or David Simon every episode of The Wire. This show constantly attempts to refresh things by introducing new actors, but surely it would benefit even more by including some new writing talent as well. But it seems doubtful that will happen given the massive success the series continues to be. And, yes, I know that I'm essentially ranting about the writing in a well-dressed ITV soap opera.

Overall, I liked the relative lightness of the finale. I was pleasantly surprised to find Shirley Maclaine much better this time around, too. Her prior appearances felt far too contemporary for me. Yes, she's a "loud", progressive American who will always seem more modern than the folks at Downton, but in her prior appearance I felt like I was watching "2013" modern, not "1920s" modern. It was like she got off the plane, went to wardrobe and walked right onto set without any preparation. This time she seemed much more comfortable, so it's a shame that she didn't get more to do. But I do agree that her final scene with Maggie Smith was surprisingly chilling. Although I love all of Maggie Smith's last-word bon mots, I liked the rather bold choice to show her silenced and ashen faced at the end of that scene.

Updated On: 2/25/14 at 08:36 AM

Wow,HorseTear, I felt the exact opposite about Shirley MacLaine's appearance this go round.

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Yes, she really didn't bother me when she was on the first time around. This time though, oh my. That's why I suggested the role be played by someone less well known. She was so out of place (IMO).

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I don't mean any disrespect to Shirley, and I adore her as an actress, but she seemed a bit out of it on the show. Her words were slurred and her timing was lagging. Neither have ever been problems that I've noticed in the past. I realize Shirley and Dame Maggie are the same age, and everyone ages differently, but I hope her health is okay. Maybe she was just off, although I really had trouble several times with her mumbling. I can handle the thickest British accents on that show, but not slurring.

As for Shirley in the role, I don't have a problem with seeing a movie star in that role. It kind of works in a sort of "Clash of the Titans" way, with her and Maggie locking horns. I did like the dialogue of their final exchange, and the acting from both was good. I felt they gave Shirley a little more to say this time, even if they didn't give her as much to do. I look forward to her "dropping in" next season (hopefully).

I also enjoyed Paul Giamatti as the oh-so-eligible, yet Guy Kibbee-ish, bachelor. His scenes with Poppy Drayton were very nice. I just wish he figured more into the overall plot. Perhaps, if he returns, that will will happen. I hope both he and Shirley are more integrated into the storyline, rather than just popping in "Dr. Bombay" style.

And back to the writing, maybe Fellowes just needs to hire a story editor or two. He seems to have interesting ideas for characters and initial plots, but doesn't seem to know how to resolve them well dramatically. They either die out or disappear entirely, or they are resolved in a way-too-tidy (and boring) way. No ramifications or consequences for many of them. Way too much unfinished business brushed aside.

EDIT: One other nitpicky point ... After they jumped eight months to 1923, and Edith already had the baby ... I didn't like that she was still reacting (and whimpering and sobbing) about her fiancé as if she were suddenly just now getting used to the idea that he might not come back. It seemed to be dawning on her as a new thought, which may have worked if EIGHT MONTHS hadn't passed, her baby born, etc. It just seemed like someone (the director) forgot to remind the actress that a lot of time has passed for her to deal with the idea that he might not return. It's fine for her to get emotional about it, but it shouldn't come across as a brand new thought. It felt very false (and inappropriate) as a reaction.

... also because I thought Mary (Michelle Dockery) handled the passage of time (during the season break) for off-camera grieving very well. When we started the season, she didn't act like Matthew had just died minutes ago. Neither did his mother. I felt that they were still adjusting, of course, but not that it was a "new thought."

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Updated On: 2/25/14 at 10:29 AM

I'm sure it's difficult to write the show because there are so many characters. As happened in Upstairs/Downstairs, I think the show focuses more on the upstairs people. We see a new generation being born and people dying upstairs. Downstairs they just clunk along like one dimensional characters.

I think it was a bit ridiculous that the entire staff picked up and went to London. It goes a bit beyond belief that they would need both Mrs. Hughes and Carson. And Daisy? And the other kitchen maid? They couldn't just hire some London help in the kitchen?

I think Daisy's American boyfriend was a poor plotline. He shows up and immediately falls for Daisy in 2 seconds and wants to start a life with her? That must be one desperate footman.

Another problem with the writing is Maggie Smith's character. You have one of Britain's best actresses and you aren't giving her anything to do. All she does is sit and comment on what everyone else is doing. I hope next season, he really gives Maggie Smith some action.

As others have said, the costumes and scenery are beautiful but the writing and the plotting really lag.

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