Do we really need more evidence that Prez Bush is an idiot?- Page 2

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 6/15/06 at 10:58am

If only Mr. Bush would read period.

[robbiej]

Posted: 6/15/06 at 10:58am

See...it's not this one incident that bothers me. It's a pattern of behavior over time. I could never put my finger on why it bothered me so much until I read this yesterday at HuffPo:

Bush to a man in a wheelchair: "You look mighty comfortable" ... to which Digby responds, "There's an interesting simple psychology involved in such things. If someone can coerce those in a group to help him attack a single member they become his accomplices. For instance, getting everybody in the press corps to laugh at a reporter's baldness makes those reporters part of the president's gang. And, of course, it intimidates them. If they stray, they too will be subject to that kind of public humiliation. It's the evil fratboy theory of social relations, very primitive stuff. That Bush may be reduced to plying this unconsciously with senior citizens in wheelchairs is not surprising, given his poll numbers."

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 6/15/06 at 11:04am

Hmmmm papa - I thought I was actually defending the president on this one - indicating that he probably did not know the man was blind.

But, again, with his crack intelligence staff, I am sure even if he told them he was blind, they might not get the information to the president correctly.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 6/15/06 at 12:53pm

Papa once again unconditionally defends Bush. Go team go. I can't wait for the Superbowl--I mean elections.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/15/06 at 1:08pm

Robbie--I love Digby! He's one of the smartest bloggers around.

Team Bush, eh?

[iflitifloat]

Posted: 6/15/06 at 1:15pm

I think papa's defense of Bush is a lot like me sticking up for Prymate. It's not that I loved the play or even thought it was *really* good. But I didn't hate it and saw more good in it than anyone else here did. So I felt compelled to defend it and present the "other side" and ended up looking like an unconditional fan.

There has to be room to allow for others to see things differrently, even if we don't agree. I've talked to papa about politics about as much as anyone here, and it's safe to say we don't see eye to eye on much of anything. But he isn't a blind follower of Bush or the Republicans. He can articulate the reasons why he believes what he believes, and even though I don't agree, I'll defend his right to his own opinions. In a venue where one is one of the sole representatives of a particular perspective, the beliefs that go against those held by the majority are likely to be amplified.

And that being said, as far as *my* personal feelings toward Bush are concerned, I WILL say this: If the dunce cap fits, wear it.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 6/15/06 at 1:25pm

"See...it's not this one incident that bothers me. It's a pattern of behavior over time."

I am applying that quote to papa. I don't have any problem with anyone defending Bush on THIS issue. I am just sick of Bush NEVER having done anything wrong in some people's mind. And, while I KNOW that papa doesn't agree 100% with Bush, you will scarcely find a post where he says this. Even when agreeing that the gay marriage debate was bad on a human level, he kept needing to say what great politics it was.

And, I am the last person who needs to be reminded about papa's right to have and voice his opinions that differ from mine. But I am SICK of always hearing how wonderful this man is in spite of the mega list of abominable things he has done. I am SICK of that list being thrown in the spin cycle and dismissed. And, I will semi-apologize that, yes, at this moment in time papa is going to get the harshness from me when he sticks up for Bush as I can't scream at the idiots on the television who keep thinking that if they keep saying something over and over and over again that somehow magically it becomes true. So, when papa starts in with that mantra, I am will continue to get into it with him on here.

And he's tough enough. And certainly gives as good as he ever gets. And our friendship is tough enough. We don't need a mediator.

[iflitifloat]

Posted: 6/15/06 at 1:51pm

One more time, Jerby. Not everything is always only about, or aimed at, you.

And if I feel like defending papa, I will, any damn time I feel like it.


Edited to delete an extraneous period.

Updated On: 6/15/06 at 01:51 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/15/06 at 2:06pm

papa likes bush?

i musta missed that...

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 6/15/06 at 2:25pm

"Not everything is always only about, or aimed at, you."

Well then who were you responding to, seeing how I had just attacked Papa? Forgive me for my grave, self-involved error.

And go ahead and defend papa any damn time you like. I'm just saying that he doesn't need it.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/15/06 at 4:10pm

papa once again unconditionally defends bush.

no, i didn't jrb. i defended against a specific accusation. which is what i usually do. i defend against something specific. i take once instance and talk about that. when i posted it was not about robbie's point, it was about a specific moment. you on the other hand have a tendency to drag in whatever seems to be upsetting you at the moment whether or not it's germane to the argument at hand.

even when agreeing that the gay marriage debate was bad on a human level, he kept needing to say what great politics it was.

i didn't say it was "great" politics, i said that it would be effective. i think if you'll look back you'll find the words craven and a few other choice ones applied to this tactic. i made allowances that some people could not look at the matter objectively, but the fact of the matter is that gay marriage is not popular in this country. while it's craven to exploit this, it's effective politically to do so.

so, when papa starts in with that mantra, i am will continue to get into it with him on here.

please repeat my mantra as i didn't know that i had one.

i seem to be, as you say, the focus of your anger since you can't rail at the persons most responsible for your anger. i'd go further to say that you have a tendency to assign to me qualities i don't have, arguments i've not made and positions which i don't support in this quest of yours for some catharsis.

and pj, mmmmmmm, bushy, bushy, bushy.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 6/15/06 at 4:22pm

Papa, your statement about gay marriage not being popular is, I guess, true, but it's not exactly widely or wildly opposed anymore either.
The newest poll I could find is 51% oppose it, down from 63% last year, with the number of people who STRONGLY oppose it way down.
In one article, it said support for civil unions was over 50% but the link to this poll doesn't show a civil unions poll question. I'm still looking for that.

Gay marriage disapproval down in 2006

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/15/06 at 4:30pm

more recent polls by gallup, abc and fox peg it between 55% and 58%.
polling report

[gymman]

Posted: 6/15/06 at 4:42pm

I love the fact that most Americans think I should be deprived of a basic civil right...
Tyrrany of the majority, indeed.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 6/15/06 at 4:51pm

And there's the polling question about civil unions, where the gap is a bit closer.

Gymman, it's pretty typical. Thank god those activist courts so often protect those who cannot protect themselves from a majority that wants to further marginalize them.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 6/15/06 at 4:54pm

I love that just because the majority thinks that way, I should just accept it. my fighting against such injustice doesn't indicate that I am unaware of the realities. it's those realities I am fighting to change. and sometimes this country does what is right and activist judges pass verdicts that rail against the majority. like interracial marriage for example. way more people were against that.

and u are right, papa. I am filled with rage when I see what bush has done to our country and our world. and that u can be so content with those same actions does not negate my anger. but know that when u defend bush-generically or specifically- u tend to piss me off. as I said, i'm sick of people defending bush and spinning the lies and deception. so when u do it, we are going to butt heads. This isn't new info. it's what we've been doing.

welcome to the jungle

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/15/06 at 4:56pm

When straight people stop divorcing, wife beating and abusing and abandoning their children, maybe THEN they can tell me what they think of my relationship.

Until they do all that, until they fix the institution of STRAIGHT marriage, I really don't give a sh*t about your f*cking polls and what they think of gay marriage.

Just don't deprive me of any civil rights or tax benefits and if you dare bar me from a hospital room, I will cut you.

[gymman]

Posted: 6/15/06 at 5:01pm

"Thank god those activist courts so often protect those who cannot protect themselves from a majority that wants to further marginalize them."

Amen, bwaysinger...thank God for those courts.

And Pal--you are so right! I pay taxes, I work (hard), I contribute to the society, I have never been arrested, and yet I am told that MAYBE the country Maybe will approve civil unions///hahahaha

How many conservative Republicans have been divorced? JC addresses this one directly, yet they continue to ignore it.

[gymman]

Posted: 6/15/06 at 5:03pm

JC=Jesus Christ

Reagen
Bush Brother Ned
Newt
Rush

for starters

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 6/15/06 at 5:04pm

The strangest and most telling part of those polls we're ignoring is that a majority of those polled support rights in the workplace and GENERAL equality but then balk on the issue of gay marriage or gay civil unions.
THAT part I blame on the wild accusations that it will somehow demean their own marriages and the constant threat that we'll somehow be able to indoctrinate people into the gay world.
I think most of our legislators are just scared because of all the closet cases who will finally feel emopowered enough to leave behind the incredible lies that are the lives they're leading, which probably does mean a lot of straight divorces in the aftermath.
But, really, what do we want in this country? Gay, closeted men married to women but creating the nuclear family that Frist keeps telling us is so integral to raising good children or divorces and pain that will lead to healing for the guy and the chance for the woman to find a man who WILL love her the way she deserves?

[gymman]

Posted: 6/15/06 at 5:10pm

The funny thing, to continue your thinking is that the "nuclear family" as Frist refers to it is a relatively recent invention (somewhere in the 19th century). This not incidentally coincides with the birth of "gay" as an Identity, rather than as an act. All of these have political and economic reasons for being called into being.

James Dobson and others are actually anti-intellectual in the worst way: they simply will not admit that their ravings are anything but recent interpretations of marriage and culture. Dobson frightens me because he is so out of the ballpark on this one that he almost froths at the mouth.

[gymman]

Posted: 6/15/06 at 5:10pm

The funny thing, to continue your thinking is that the "nuclear family" as Frist refers to it is a relatively recent invention (somewhere in the 19th century). This not incidentally coincides with the birth of "gay" as an Identity, rather than as an act. All of these have political and economic reasons for being called into being.

James Dobson and others are actually anti-intellectual in the worst way: they simply will not admit that their ravings are anything but recent interpretations of marriage and culture. Dobson frightens me because he is so out of the ballpark on this one that he almost froths at the mouth.

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 6/15/06 at 5:38pm

"Bush to a man in a wheelchair: "You look mighty comfortable" "

Now THAT is funny!

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/15/06 at 5:43pm

ok, just argue whatever ya want, jrb. none of which i said. but what does that matter, i'm a republican, it doesn't matter what i say, does it? like talking to a f***ing wall.

pj, it always comes down to violence with you doesn't it? you can not give a sh*t all ya want, see how many elections that wins for ya.

bway, i noticed that too. the issue is education and it has to be done locally. when people stop seeing the glbt community as some scary thing that's defined by others and rather as their friends and neighbors it's harder to de-humanize them and harder for people to defend discrimination. it's not a problem that will be fixed at the federal level. not will it be done unilaterally by one side or the other without violent repurcussions.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 6/15/06 at 6:21pm

the brick wall hasn't learned the lines you'd like to hear