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#101

Donna Summer has died

And this is when I wish I had one of the proper BWW accounts, that allowed me to edit or delete my post. I regret getting so defensive in my posts, particularly my last one.
#102

Donna Summer has died

No, see the problem here is that you can read all of the books or online articles you want about something, but it doesn't make you an expert on it. The fact is that you are too young to have lived through it. You are just rattling off someone's else thoughts and experiences.

And going back to change what you posted only erases your mistakes. it doesn't change the fact that you are talking about something that you know nothing about.


"TheatreDiva90016 - another good reason to frequent these boards less."<<>> “I hesitate to give this line of discussion the validation it so desperately craves by perpetuating it, but the light from logic is getting further and further away with your every successive post.” <<>> -whatever2
#103

Donna Summer has died

Can we please just get back to celebrating the legacy of Donna Summer. :)
"The sexual energy between the mother and son really concerns me!"-random woman behind me at Next to Normal "I want to meet him after and bang him!"-random woman who exposed her breasts at Rock of Ages, referring to James Carpinello
#104

Donna Summer has died

I didn't go back to change anything--I can't even do that with my account. But we can agree I am no expert on *anything* and that's why I appreciate this forum, and I am sorry that I have given the impression I always think I am. There's no other way to learn so much about any subject and it's amazing to get such a deeper perspective (particularly thanks to Namo and PJ) on a subject, and I am sorry for ever implying I was talking about something I knew nothing about.

#106

The Donna Summer Debacle

I don't see that you have anything to apologise for, Eric. If anyone should be doing any apologising here, it's TheatreDiva90016, but that would require him to get what I'd call an old gay man's chip off of his shoulder - and there's no way that's going to happen.

Yes, the young gays of today should be grateful to the old gays and the battles they fought so that we can live the lives we live today. I certainly am, and going by what Eric has written in this thread, so is he. It's not like the world today is without it's own battles for the LGBT community, but heaven forbid that any of these be mentioned in the same breath as the battles of old. If that's the basis for the fight in which we're going to trap ourselves, then they were all moot, old and new.

No, Eric and I and everyone else born since 1978 can't have the same experiences you had, but we can empathise with them in the same way that all of us can emphathise with what happened in the Holocaust without having experienced it ourselves, and, yes, that empathy can be extended through not only non-fictional accounts of the past, but also through literature that illuminates it. That's one of the things that art, in whatever form it takes, is able to achieve.

That's all that Eric's been trying to say in his most recent posts, but all of the pearl-clutching and posturing that's been going on in this thread has completely obscured that. Of course, that was the point all along, wasn't it, TheatreDiva90016? It hasn't been at all about proving some point about how the gays of today stand on the shoulders of the gays of the past without gratitude or that empathy from the younger generations towards the older generations is impossible. Watching these posts appear has been like being an audince to some kind of personal vendetta being played out against someone whose only crime was to be here and articulate his feelings at a time when he was obviously vulnerable due to the manner in which he experienced the death of someone who is an icon in his life.

I hope that you can see that, Eric, and take what has been said from whence it comes. It's clear to me and many others here, I am sure, that you don't just copy and paste what you find on Google in your posts and that you are a deep thinker and that you feel things very deeply, no matter how much some people here might try to negate that. It is they that are being churlish, not you.

What a mess of a thread this has become, from a topic that should have been about celebrating the talent of a woman who meant a great deal to many people, including many gay people, despite whatever personal views she may have held, views that in any case were subject to change over time and part of a complex process that she had to work through on her own terms. I hope that somehow we can steer this back in that direction once again. In fact, I'm going to post a link that attempts to achieve just that.


Donna Summer sings MacArthur Park
Musical Cyberspace: a tribute to the musicals of Broadway and beyond.
#107

The Donna Summer Debacle

Damn, Rainbow... I didn't get ANY of that from anything that was posted. It was discussion about Donna Summer and the comments she made. Her words were being weighed against what was happening at the time within the community. Eric was commenting based on what he knew from what he had read. The others were commenting on what they experienced. Sure, some of the men who experienced the horrors firsthand are rather protective of the facts, as they should be. I saw no mention of how today's gays stand on the shoulder of older gays without gratitude. You can't add a whole post of bull$hit and then complain that the topic has gotten off track.
Pretty pretty please don't you ever ever feel like you're less than f**ckin' perfect!
#108

The Donna Summer Debacle

Nice way to twist what we said all out of whack, Rainbow...


JG said, "Eric was commenting based on what he knew from what he had read. The others were commenting on what they experienced." I was only saying that Eric shouldn't be speaking as though he lived through it, because he didn't. He was reading things online and wrote his posts based on that, even though they came across as first hand knowledge.


"TheatreDiva90016 - another good reason to frequent these boards less."<<>> “I hesitate to give this line of discussion the validation it so desperately craves by perpetuating it, but the light from logic is getting further and further away with your every successive post.” <<>> -whatever2
#109

The Donna Summer Debacle

JG is right--and I really didn't realize what I said sounded like I was implying I lived through it or knew as much as people who had.
#110

The Donna Summer Debacle

It obvious most of your posts are based on things you have read on line and not actually experienced in real life.
"TheatreDiva90016 - another good reason to frequent these boards less."<<>> “I hesitate to give this line of discussion the validation it so desperately craves by perpetuating it, but the light from logic is getting further and further away with your every successive post.” <<>> -whatever2
#111

The Donna Summer Debacle

Eric never misrepresented the source of his knowledge about the 70s and 80s. I don't understand why he is being attacked here.

I lived in Manhattan from 1977 through 1985, yet Eric knows far more about Donna Summer and disco in general than I. I didn't frequent Studio 54 and wasn't really paying attention to disco, so merely living through an era is no guarantee of expertise on all aspects of the period.

(And for the record, the details of a novel may be fictional, but when it comes to portraying an era through which the author lived, a novel tends to be a legitimate representation of the author's recollection.)

But if I may be allowed to fact-check the much anticipated history by PJ and Namo, the acronym "AIDS" wasn't coined until 1982. So Donna Summer certainly wasn't using it in Atlantic City in 1981. That doesn't mean the essence of her reported remarks isn't correct.

However, as I recall it, in 1981, we were all still talking about the "gay cancer" or "gay pneumonia" and the assumption by many (including many doctors) was that some unique disease was striking gay men alone. Everything from promiscuity to poppers was blamed. That doesn't excuse all the remarks attributed to Summer, but one can understand why the religious might have thought a disease that only struck gay men had some sort of divine significance.

Finally, no matter what Summer may have said, she began apologizing profusely for it (and/or denying that she believed it) by 1985. That's 27 years of apologies before her death.

Isn't it time to forgive her?

#112

The Donna Summer Debacle

A lot of people recently spoke as experts on the personal life of Judy Garland, especially her behavior behind closed doors in the last 2 weeks of her life and were HIGHLY offended if ANYONE challenged them on the subject. I never got the idea that Eric was speaking as though he lived through it. I mean, I already knew he wasn't old enough, but he also seemed pretty explicit about where he got the information.

It obvious most of your posts are based on things you have read on line and not actually experienced in real life.

When speaking of the lives of celebrities, that is true of 90% of the posts on BWW. Why is this instance such a huge issue? I truly don't understand what all the fuss is about.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
#113

The Donna Summer Debacle

It's obvious Eric is just ringing up his post count.
"TheatreDiva90016 - another good reason to frequent these boards less."<<>> “I hesitate to give this line of discussion the validation it so desperately craves by perpetuating it, but the light from logic is getting further and further away with your every successive post.” <<>> -whatever2
#114

The Donna Summer Debacle

Well, I guess it's obvious we're all just ringing up post counts when we post things we wish to discuss and respond to others directly.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
#115

RIP Donna Summer

aaaaand, back on topic:

RIP, Donna Summer...




"Two drifters off to see the world. There's such a lot of world to see. . ."

Updated On: 5/20/12 at 06:37 PM

#117

RIP Donna Summer

The Mudd Club. Wow. Haven't thought about that place in decades!

Thanks for sharing that.
"Two drifters off to see the world. There's such a lot of world to see. . ."
#118

RIP Donna Summer

Memory is such a tricky thing, I'm pretty sure Bette had long since stopped performing at the Continental Baths by the time "Love to Love You, Baby" was released. But that's where she remembers hearing it.
Twitter @NamoInExile Instagram none
#119

RIP Donna Summer

Right??? Continental closed in '74 or '75. 'Love to Love You' was '75. BathHouse Bette had definitely moved on by then.
You think, what do you want? You think, make a decision...
#120

RIP Donna Summer

"But we can agree I am no expert on *anything* and that's why I appreciate this forum, and I am sorry that I have given the impression I always think I am."

You might think about a) why you give that impression, and b) what you can do to change that impression. That is, if you really believe that you don't know everything.

You impress people enough with the knowledge you do have. Certainly I am impressed, amazed even. (Your taste is another matter). But you don't have to raise your hand to answer every question the teacher asks, even if you know every answer (which you don't).
#121

RIP Donna Summer

Let's all feel some love.

RIP Donna Summer


Updated On: 5/20/12 at 09:44 PM

#122

RIP Donna Summer

Before I feel the love, joey, I have to comment on After Eight's apparent attempt to make "being a jerk" his life's work.

Here's EricMontreal22 on Donna Summer:

"Nobody in the pop world had meant more to me than Donna Summer--an outstanding singer, probably the best vocalist ever recorded...."

Whether I agree with his rating of Miss Summer, Eric admitted his bias in favor of the woman. Is it any wonder Eric defends her or posts quite a bit in a thread devoted to her death? Jeeze, Louise! No wonder younger gay men pretend we old farts are invisible. Who can blame them? They've probably all had encounters with After Eight!
#123

RIP Donna Summer

Having gotten the above off my chest, I am happy to politely commemorate Miss Summer now. I must thank everyone for all the links here. Since I wasn't a fan of disco, I didn't pay a lot of attention to Summer during her career.

I have to admit I'm surprised to realize how many of the hits I heard on 70s' dance floors were hers. She really was the voice of that era.
#124

RIP Donna Summer

While not on-topic, I feel compelled to point out that we Old Gay Farts do not behave in any one way, nor do our Younger Gay Brethren.

Let each of us take responsibility for our own behavior, neither hiding behind nor making broad generational stereotypes.


You think, what do you want? You think, make a decision...
#125

RIP Donna Summer

^^^I forgot to mention that apparently we Old Farts also lose our senses of humor. But I guess that's obvious from this thread.

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