Glenn Greenwald Criticizes Obama for Caving on Telecom Immunity- Page 3

[tazber]

Posted: 6/27/08 at 1:11am

Oh god, LOL!

Didn't Rachel Ray give him fashion tips or something?

[Namaste]

Posted: 6/27/08 at 1:17am

Rachel Ray is not for party unity and should be forced into obscurity.

[tazber]

Posted: 6/27/08 at 1:18am

She doesn't need to be forced, she'll do it to herself.

[Namaste]

Posted: 6/27/08 at 1:20am

Talking about a woman forcing something on herself gets me tingly.

[tazber]

Posted: 6/27/08 at 1:21am

EVOO?

[Namaste]

Posted: 6/27/08 at 1:22am

I don't need any.

I'm oily enough.

[tazber]

Posted: 6/27/08 at 1:25am

Ooooh, that's what that was.

[StageManager2]

Posted: 6/27/08 at 1:39am

Speaking of "oil" and "Obama," I'm presently skimming my new UNCLE JOHN'S BATHROOM READER (20th anniversary edition) and it has a little section about Obama, under Nudes & Prudes. I thought I'd share since it's relevant. Sorta.

PRUDE: While campaigning for the presidency in 2007, Senator Barack Obama made a fundraising stop at the Planet Zero Art Gallery in Richmond, Virginia. And although he's campaigning on a progressive platform, one of the artworks on display was too risqué for the senator. It was a 6-by-10-foot oil painting called "Snake Charmer," which features Britney Spears (sans underwear) getting out of Paris Hilton's limo. "I wished we could have had a good dialogue about freedom of speech," said the artist, Jamie Bolling, "but I understand that a politician might want to avoid being photographed in front of Britney Spear's crotch."

[tazber]

Posted: 6/27/08 at 1:40am

LOL. scamp3 took me to that museum once.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/27/08 at 7:22am

"It does, however, grant retroactive immunity, and I will work in the Senate to remove this provision so that we can seek full accountability for past offenses."

Madbrian--you're happy with that?

mejust?

lildogs?

orangeskittles?

I think it stinks.

[madbrian]

Posted: 6/27/08 at 8:02am

I'm not happy, and for what it's worth, I've written so on his website. However, while it is fair to question his decision on this matter, in my opinion this is somewhat better than a traditional flip-flop. He's not wholeheartedly endorsing something he's railed against in the past; he's reluctantly agreeing to vote on the entirety of a bill that includes at least one element he opposes. He's not pandering, like proposing a gas tax holiday, or pushing offshore drilling as a short-term fix.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/27/08 at 8:06am

You actually believe he will "work in the Senate to remove this provision so that we can seek full accountability for past offenses"?

I call that "pandering."

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/27/08 at 8:17am

The Reepublicans are saying if they can get Obama to cave this easily on retroactive immunity, it will be a cinch to get him to cave on Iraq withdrawal.

They're saying he'll be more of a pushover than Clinton or Congress.

[South Fl Marc]

Posted: 6/27/08 at 8:59am

Obama ran his primary race running on the theme "Change", that he would be a different politician, making claims along the way: that he would filibuster any vote that gave immunity to the telecommunications firms, that he would take public finance in the presidential race. When he said these promises his supporters applauded and lauded him for it. At the same time he avoided votes that were controversial, like the vote on Iran (much the same way he voted present in his job at Chicago so he wouldn't go on record with anything that might get him into trouble later).

Now that he is the nominee he has backed off on his promises and his supporters (including Olbermann, who helped get him nominated) claim he is doing it just to get elected.
So in the end , we didn't get a candidate of change - we got someone who will say or do anything to get elected. In other words Hillary ... without the experience. But then she had the guts to at least have voted on issues before the results of the primary was known.

My problem is, who is this man? What does he really believe - since he's already shown you can't automatically believe everything he says. Don't think that if the vote for Iran was today that he wouldn't now vote for it. And when he did his supporters would agree saying he had to do it to be elected (what hypocrites).

As a democrat , I know I don't have a choice on who to vote for. Still Obama and some of his hypocritical supporters are really pissing me off.

[javero]

Posted: 6/27/08 at 9:15am

One person's cave is another's compromise.

This election is bigger than Obama & McBush combined.

[South Fl Marc]

Posted: 6/27/08 at 10:14am

Then why did he wait until AFTER the primary to say so. I'll answer, he would not have won the primary. He was the candidate of "Change". Well, it seems that after the primary he "changed" back into what he is, a typical, say anything to get elected politician - only he... unlike the rest of the Democratic nominees , has no experience.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/27/08 at 10:29am

The Obama supporters are unable to defend this capitulation, and they will be unable to defend all of his other capitulations as they come.

Starting with his next capitulation: Iraq.

They said he was different. They said his politics would be different. They said the world itself would be different.

Poor fools, poor deluded fools.

His campaigning on a platform of "New Politics" and "Change" will leave a entire generation disillusioned, disappointed and depressed.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/27/08 at 11:10am

no pj, they'll just come up with reasons to justify them as they come along. if they admitted them, they would have to admit their own culpability in them and that's something they will never, ever do.

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 6/27/08 at 11:26am

"His campaigning on a platform of "New Politics" and "Change" will leave a entire generation disillusioned, disappointed and depressed."

Yes but if you read anything he stands for or understand the words coming out of his mouth has the exact position on Iraq as does Hillary Clinton.

"The Republicans are saying if they can get Obama to cave this easily on retroactive immunity, it will be a cinch to get him to cave on Iraq withdrawal. "

He's not really for a withdrawal.


""It does, however, grant retroactive immunity, and I will work in the Senate to remove this provision so that we can seek full accountability for past offenses."

mejust?

No I'm not happy with it, I'm furious, but I'm not naive enough to expect the Democratic leadership in this country to change over night.

I love that people are angry about this. I think it's fantastic but why did they cast votes for Clinton and Obama?

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 6/27/08 at 11:34am

I guess my point here is, why is everyone on this board (people I assume can read)SHOCKED by any of this. Obama like Hillary is not a liberal. Despite what the media says about him or what Republicans say he is not.

I expect this from Greenwald, that is what he does, he is a liberal. Oblerman I expect exactly what he does, he is not liberal.

After watching that stupid America video I can imagine people can assume radically different things but it's not the reality.

Obama is different. He is change but change that is purely superficial (which I have said all along). People in this country are very myopic and that is how you play this election game. Obama offered a different campaign (same promises) but something different.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/27/08 at 11:57am

He's not different just because he says he's different.

He's the same if he acts the same.

Get it?

It would be completely delusional for anyone to hear him say he will "work in the Senate to remove this provision so that we can seek full accountability for past offenses" and believe that an Obama Administration is going to criminally prosecute ANYONE for warrantless wiretapping.

He is not different. He is the same.

(And he's still better than John McCain.)

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 6/27/08 at 12:07pm

PJ - But what idiot believed he was any different than the damn Democrat he has always been? It makes me think that many Democrats are as stupid as Republicans.

I'm seriously in awe when people pretend to care about politics in this country for five minutes but haven't a clue as to what really goes on.

Neither Hillary or Obama supported/support impeachment. Hillary of all people should have said, Make It So! Instead they only cared about this primary/election. Neither gave a **** about the people voting.

Obama is doing exactly what Obama has done and what someone in his position has done. He is a democrat. Anything outside of that box is liberal and he is not a liberal. He can make changes as a Democrat and he will and has, but don't expect him to start talking about single-payer healthcare.

I would argue Obama offered a much different campaign than we are used to and it really helped him win. That was change. He went after people that are often ignored and raised millions in private donations. He also appealed to younger people and connected with them.

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 6/27/08 at 12:14pm

And you could break this down into something completely different. You can call it pandering or hypocrisy.

I will continue to go back to the gay issue. None of these leading Democrats politically support true equality. None. Now why aren't you mad Obama and Hillary aren't for Gay Marriage? Why isn't that on the news everyday? Shouldn't equality be the top agenda of our party? Isn't it the foundation of democracy?

What about Single-payer healthcare? If you poll Democrats it's what they want.

We also want the war to end. What Democrat says that's going to happen? Like 4. They do not include Obama or Clinton.

These are Democrats don't expect anything other than what they can do. They can't win elections on issues like Gay Rights, Gun Control. They can't. And as Democrats what choice do we really have? They don't listen. Nancy Pelosi is the single biggest disgrace to the Democratic party in it's history.

That woman is no better than Joe Lieberman. Guess what? She is gonna win AGAIN!

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/27/08 at 12:14pm

But what idiot believed he was any different than the damn Democrat he has always been?

What idiot believed that?

Everyone who voted for him.

All the people who fainted at his rallies.

MSNBC and the rest of the Hillary-hating media.

Everyone who called Hillary a c*nt.

Lildogs and orangeskittles and Madbrian and Liverpool.

You.

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 6/27/08 at 12:19pm

"Everyone who voted for him."

That is NOT true, and you really don't support him.

"MSNBC and the rest of the Hillary-hating media."

MSNBC was very pro-Hillary early on. She is the one that made it ugly. Not that her position on ANY issue was different than his. Clearly you can't trust the media for any real journalism in this country.

"Everyone who called Hillary a c*nt"

You need to seriously get some meds.

"Lildogs and orangeskittles and Madbrian and Liverpool.

You."

Look at all my posts. You need to get over Clinton man. Are you eating?