Harry Potter Book Club - Chapter 16 A Very Frosty Christmas- Page 11

[KelRel]

Posted: 3/10/06 at 3:50pm

Part of me wants to order the British version so that I can have it the way it was meant to be; then my wallet intervenes and says I'm fine with my copy.

[pndmnd]

Posted: 3/10/06 at 4:34pm

We haven't seen many adult wizards use nonverbal spells. Why do you think that is? Are they so difficult that, like apparation, some people just don't bother with them? If so why are the students being expected to master them?

I just want to add a couple of thoughts on this one. First, keep in mind that we have seen some non-verbal spells already. Remember in OotP, when Marietta is brought in to Dumbledore's office as a wittness, and her memory is altered. That was done silently. Also, I think part of teaching the non-verbal spells isn't so much to teach them how to do them, but to make the students aware that people can use them against them.

Is Hermione being overly cautious about the Potions textbook? Is Harry being reckless to use it? Is the answer somewhere in between?

I think that part of Hermione's response is being bothered by Harry doing well. She's not used to him doing well in potions, and probably thinks that hers would have been the best if he had followed the real instructions. Having said that, I do think Harry is being reckless, and Hermione also has his best interest at heart. We need to remember, also, that Harry obviously isn't horrible at potions when he's not preoccupied by Snape, because he did achieve an E in his OWL. Had he not followed those directions, he might not have come in first, but he probably would have done much better than in the past.

What do you think is the third thing Hermione smells in the Amortentia? Freshly mown grass, new parchment, and...?

My first instinct is to say that it's something related to Ron, because she cut herself off before saying it. It could also be that it's the smell of Hogwarts, the library, or the Burrough, and that she just stopped because she realized that she was going on and on.

How does Slughorn's approach to teaching Potions compare to Snape's?

Slughorn is almost an opposite of Snape. He's closer to being fair, but he's more likely to baby different people then Snape did. I also don't think he would intentionally mean to his non-pet students.

[Type_A_Tiff]

Posted: 3/10/06 at 6:29pm

KelRel, if you order from Canada, we've got virtually the exact same editions as the Brits (including the same cover), so you'll save yourself a load of money! Plus I think all of them (not sure about the sixth one) are available in paperback. Just a thought! (Not that there's any PRESSING use to own them when you've got the US version, but I don't blame you for wanting the originals!)

Clay, thanks for the explanation. It still seems silly, but you're probably right from a marketing standpoint.

[Overthemoon6]

Posted: 3/10/06 at 7:11pm

We haven't seen many adult wizards use nonverbal spells. Why do you think that is? Are they so difficult that, like apparation, some people just don't bother with them? If so why are the students being expected to master them?

I agree with pretty much everyone who's talked about this. That's a really scary thought, though. I wouldn't like knowing that someone could be putting me under the Imperius Curse or something without me knowing.

Is Hermione being overly cautious about the Potions textbook? Is Harry being reckless to use it? Is the answer somewhere in between?

I think that Hermione has mixed emotions. Yes, she's concerned for Harry's well being and she was reminded of Riddle's diary, but I think she really does resent the fact that Harry did better than her, she's not really used to it. And yes, Harry is being reckless; for all he knew, the book could have told him directions that could have blown up Hogwarts.

What do you think is the third thing Hermione smells in the Amortentia? Freshly mown grass, new parchment, and...?

I definately agree with Ron's corned beef smelling jumper. Oh yes. Although, it could have been the flowery smell that Harry smelled, too. Maybe it's a Burrow thing?

I don't really feel like doing the last question. So I won't.

[Type_A_Tiff]

Posted: 3/10/06 at 7:12pm

I'm going over some FAQ questions on JKR's website, and I thought I'd speculate with you folks.

JKR says the reason Dumbledore's Howler in HP5 says, "Remember my last," instead of "Remember my letter," (apparently the one left on the doorstep with baby Harry) is because there was previous correspondence to Petunia alone BEFORE that letter. Any ideas?

Also, this is my own speculation - on page 150 of HP6, Tonks uses her Patronus to send the message after she retrieves Harry from the train. It just says that the Patronus is "an immense silverly four-legged creature". Dumbledore's Patronus is a phoenix; Hermione's is a walrus. Do you think there's any signifance that a) Tonk's Patronus, similar to Harry's, is another large four-legged creature?; b) we don't know specifically WHAT creature it is?

[Overthemoon6]

Posted: 3/10/06 at 7:18pm

Well, I don't want to say anything about Tonks's patronus without giving too much away or going into later chapters.

My bet would be a certain shaggy dog though.

Just wondering, but where did it say that Dumbledore's patronus was a phoenix? It seems logical, of course, but could you tell me which book/chapter?

[Type_A_Tiff]

Posted: 3/10/06 at 7:22pm

Crap, is her Patronus revealed later on in the book? I've only read it once before this, when it was first released, and my memory's worse than Dory in Finding Nemo! You can edit your post now, just in case. Thanks for the info!

As for Dumbledore's Patronus being a Phoenix, I don't remember if it was stated in a book (it seemed like the obvious choice), but I just finished reading JKR's official FAQ section and she says it is indeed a phoenix. (I suppose she hasn't said it in a book then; she just responded to people who asked her.)

[pndmnd]

Posted: 3/10/06 at 7:50pm

So, either Dumbledore spoke with Petunia personally at some point, or sent another kind of message. Perhaps he sent his patronous with a message (would that be a kind of message that a muggle would understand?).

On a side note, do we know what Ron's patronous is?

[Zyla]

Posted: 3/10/06 at 7:53pm

I hope I'm not interrupting anything, but I'm amazed by what I see on this thread. Everyone's having a peaceful discussion; it's (mostly) serious and on-topic; disagreements remain disagreements rather than arguments; everyone seems to appreciates the others' points of view! Is this still BWW?
Your discussion has given me greater respect for Harry Potter and its fan community. I might have to get a copy of the Half-Blood Prince (I've read it, I just don't own it) and join in!

[Type_A_Tiff]

Posted: 3/10/06 at 7:54pm

I don't know if he'd send his patronus with a message - on JKR's FAQ, she says using patronuses is only the way that the Order members communicate with each other, taught by Dumbledore. But yeah, I'd imagine he's had at least owl correspondence. Do you remember when she knew what Dementors was? Did she ever say how she knew that they were from Azkaban? Could that be Dumbledore, or was it Lily who told her?

Not sure what Ron's patronus is. Did they say during the DA classes in HP5?

[Type_A_Tiff]

Posted: 3/10/06 at 7:56pm

Zyla, frightening, isn't it?!

You SHOULD join in. I just started on here two chapters ago and it's been fun! When I re-read an HP book, I obsess over every detail, so I'm glad to have a community to pick it apart with!

Is HP6 in paperback yet? It's worth picking up and then you should participate.

[pndmnd]

Posted: 3/10/06 at 8:18pm

OK, I'm understanding now. If he'd have to refer to the specific letter he meant if he sent more than one. Sorry about that--it's been a long week! I don't think it ever said what Ron's patronous was. And, I don't think we ever found out how she knew about dementors. I figured either from Lily, or from Dumbledore. When Sirius went to Azkaban, she might have been told that he was being gaurded by dementors. Since he killed her family members, she would kind of have the rite to know.

[Rose_MacShane]

Posted: 3/10/06 at 8:22pm

Tiff, the canon Nazi in me had to say this: Hermione's Patronus is an otter.
And if anyone is interested in rousing HP conversations 24/7 (as well as fanart, fanfic, and all sorts of lovliness), check out http://www.phoenixsong.net

[Zyla]

Posted: 3/10/06 at 8:29pm

Thanks, Tiff!
Mythology fascinates me, so I enjoy the Harry Potter books mainly because of all the references.
I read HBP last summer, but, due to my very strange memory, many small details have stuck in my mind, so I think I'll try to answer the Chapter 9 questions.

We haven't seen many adult wizards use nonverbal spells. Why do you think that is? Are they so difficult that, like apparation, some people just don't bother with them? If so why are the students being expected to master them?

As I said, various small, probably unimportant details tend to stick in my mind - which can be useful when reading Harry Potter! I actually remember a couple of instances in previous books where adults may have used nonverbal spells:
- In the Philosopher's Stone, I'm guessing (probably wrong, and probably insignificant) that, when Quirrel cursed Harry (and subsequently when Snape performed the countercurse), he used a nonverbal spell, as not to attract attention.
- In the Prisoner of Azkaban, I believe that, when the boggart appeared on the train, Lupin didn't say a word when he conjured his Patronus. Considering that both are complicated spells, that's a double accomplishment!

As to why the students are learning them: I agree with pndmnd - so that they can be aware of them. I'm sure it all boils down to defense.

Is Hermione being overly cautious about the Potions textbook? Is Harry being reckless to use it? Is the answer somewhere in between?

I share the general opinion - it irritates her not to be the top student, but she probably has a good reason to be concerned. The books preceding and following the Goblet of Fire are supposed to mirror each other, so HBP should reflect the Chamber of Secrets, in which a seemingly innocent, even helpful, magic book caused (understatement) a lot of trouble. Plus, I'm guessing it would take a lot to get Hermione suspicious of a book.
Even though the students, being characters in the series, couldn't be aware of the mirror effect, I agree that Harry is being a little reckless. Then again, that is part of his character. When has he not leapt at the chance to do something potentially lethal?

What do you think is the third thing Hermione smells in the Amortentia? Freshly mown grass, new parchment, and...?

I really don't know about this one, and, to tell the truth, don't exactly care. *ducks* Probably we're supposed to think it's something associated with Ron, but you never know. What I really want to know is if (and how) Amortentia will prove useful in the future. We all know that love is a strong theme in the books, so...? I haven't really thought it through yet.

How does Slughorn's approach to teaching Potions compare to Snape's?
Again, pretty much what pndmnd said. Slughorn is obviously not above picking favorites, but, unlike Snape, he does not make an effort to belittle those not chosen.

[Type_A_Tiff]

Posted: 3/10/06 at 8:35pm

Oops, thanks Rose. Walrus, otter...mix 'em up. But "koo koo kachoo, I am...the otter" just doesn't have the same ring to it!

[Overthemoon6]

Posted: 3/10/06 at 9:06pm

Ron's Patronus is a Jack Russel Terrier I think.

[Rose_MacShane]

Posted: 3/10/06 at 9:28pm

TIff, now every time I see Hermione I'm going to sing "Koo koo kachoo, I am the otter!"

[Type_A_Tiff]

Posted: 3/10/06 at 9:36pm

LOL!

I think I was thinking walrus since they and Hermione both had the large two front teeth.

Thanks OTM.

I'm on Chapter 12 (Silver and Opals) now. *jingles impatiently*

Hey, didn't someone have a theory from chapter 5 that they said we could PM them about? Who was that and what was it about?

[Overthemoon6]

Posted: 3/11/06 at 2:19am

hmmm....Just watched Goblet of Fire again.

Anyone interested in discussing before the next chapters are posted?

I'll just ask some questions.

What were some minor plots/characters that you missesd in the movie?
Personally, I missed the whole house elf thing with Mr. Crouch freeing Winky and how she had to take care of his son. I also really wanted to see the Rita Skeeter deal with Hermione and the advancement of the joke shop that Fred and George were going to have (ton-tongue taffys anyone?). I wished that Percy, Bill, Charlie, the house elves and Ludo Bagman had been part of the movie. I know that would have made it like a 5 hour movie, but still...

Oh, and did anyone think that the dress that Hermione wore to the Yule Ball was ugly?

[Type_A_Tiff]

Posted: 3/11/06 at 2:41am

Oooh, sure, I'll play!


ETA: Sorry, this is more verbose than it should be. I'm just not in the right mind-set to make it more concise.


I wasn't too crushed over the elimination of SPEW, but I do wish they'd mentioned Winky. (I get sort of worried when I see how simplistic the movies are - not only because I'm disappointed by how much I wanted to see on the silver screen, but because I figure JK would intervene if there was something vital to future plots that had been left out of the movie - considering the amount that's been cut, I just hope the resolution isn't as simplistic as the movies are chalking it up to be!)

I also wish Rita Skeeter's part had been expanded; at the very least, bring up the Animagus sub-plot! (I don't think Miranda's back for the HP5 movie, so I guess she won't be interviewing Harry for The Quibbler.) I REALLY wish Percy had been in HP4, but apparently he's back in HP5. I don't like the fact that Barty Crouch Jr. was introduced so early in the movie...what was the point? I also wish the maze had been more complex than the movie made it out to be. I get that they were going for more of a psychological challenge than physical, but I got the impression that the whole sequence had just been slapped together at the last minute. (And I'm probably wrong, because it was the first - or one of the first - sequences filmed.)

There's probably more for me to nitpick over, but it's been a while since I saw the movie.

I complain about it a lot, but I enjoyed this one more than the other 3 films - it's the only one I've seen in theatres more than twice. I thought Mike Newell did an impressive job and the cast is improving a lot.



PS. I didn't think Hermione's Yule Ball dress was ugly. It wasn't what I imagined it to be, but I didn't think it was an eyesore. Hermione's entrance at the Yule Ball was a highlight (in the book and the movie), but I was still a bit disappointed that they didn't play up Hermione's transformation as much. There would have been a better pay-off if she had strolled down the steps, on Viktor's arm unrecognized, until suddenly it hits Harry and Ron, like it does in the book. But eh. I still liked it.

Updated On: 3/11/06 at 02:41 AM

[Overthemoon6]

Posted: 3/11/06 at 3:29am

Yeah, I just really didn't care for the whole bunch of flounces and the sleeves and the way the color was light at the top and then got darker.

And red shoes really don't match it. Her hair, however, was beautiful.

I too wish that the maze had been more complex, and that there had been a bit more transition between things.

I'll admit it; I have cried every time that I've seen it (now up to 8 times I think).

I am going to cry so hard during HP5.

Updated On: 3/11/06 at 03:29 AM

[Overthemoon6]

Posted: 3/11/06 at 3:32am

By the way, Tiff; is that you with the beer bottle in your avatar?

[Type_A_Tiff]

Posted: 3/11/06 at 3:35am

Only if I'm really Emma Watson!

[Overthemoon6]

Posted: 3/11/06 at 3:40am

Wow....she's definately not 21. Unless the drinking age in England is lower.

Lol that really doesn't look like her. How do I know you aren't Emma Watson?

[Type_A_Tiff]

Posted: 3/11/06 at 3:47am

I think the drinking age in England is 15 or 16, so I'm she's technically legal. I still got such a kick out of it.

http://www.thesuperficial.com/archives/2006/03/02/hermione_still_loves_her_booze.html

(There's also a link there to the original photo in my avatar of me her sucking on that Corona bottle.)

IShe lives in England and drinks Corona. I'm more offended by my her poor taste in beer!

Updated On: 3/11/06 at 03:47 AM