Health Care Bill will pass, despite OBSTRUCTION !- Page 3

[JohnBoy2]

Posted: 3/21/10 at 11:29pm

Namo's doctor died, rather than participate!

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 3/21/10 at 11:52pm

Well, there.

It passed.


Now we can watch Republicans bitch and moan even more.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/22/10 at 12:52am

That is a lie, JohnBoy. That doctor's death was an accident. Nobody ever told me not to eat a bean burrito before a prostate exam.

[tom5515]

Posted: 3/24/10 at 4:04pm

I work for Starbucks, I'm covered.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 3/24/10 at 4:22pm

Trolls tend to post only in threads they originate, because their self-obsession is so pathological that they are unable to concentrate on other people's threads. They keep coming back and "bumping" their threads, like a serial killer who returns over and over again to the secret site of the victim's undiscovered body.

[uncageg]

Posted: 3/24/10 at 4:33pm

Well, according to CNN, there have been threats against 10 people who voted for it. Death threats against the reps and even their families. Also a threat to protest in front of one of their homes. They have asked for extra security. They have been meeting with the FBI and CIA (I think) at the Capitol. I am trying to find a link with the story.

[tom5515]

Posted: 3/24/10 at 5:03pm

I can't believe that.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 3/24/10 at 5:14pm

Well, Tom, it's true.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2010/03/24/ricks.hc.debate.becomes.uncivil.cnn?iref=allsearch

But then, you liked cathycollie's posts, too.

Updated On: 3/24/10 at 05:14 PM

[tom5515]

Posted: 3/24/10 at 5:21pm

I was entertained. My wife has standards.

[uncageg]

Posted: 3/24/10 at 5:53pm

Thank you Diva. It wasn't up when I posted. Thy have since played a few more voicemails and they are frightening. This is getting out of control. The Dems have held a press conference but the Republicans only issued a statement. It is time for both parties to make a public statement about this together. And there is no way the Republicans can say that this isn't due, in part, to the things they have said publicly and televised on the house floor about this bill. They know they are fueling this fire.

[singtopher]

Posted: 3/24/10 at 8:10pm

Here is a great article that just gives the facts.

http://www.freep.com/article/20100323/NEWS15/100322074/1371/What-the-health-care-bill-does

[tom5515]

Posted: 3/25/10 at 8:28am

Why is health care reform inciting violence?

[madbrian]

Posted: 3/25/10 at 9:03am

"Why is health care reform inciting violence?"

For over a year, the far right has been making healthcare reform into the boogeyman. From socialism, to funding abortions, to illegal immigrants, to death panels. The media, led by but not limited to FoxNews, has been complicit in this. The media has done nothing to inform the public, they're just reporting on the hysteria. Some of the hot topics, like abortion and death panels, were never in question. The public option is gone, and illegal immigrants have been excluded. What's left is a minimal set of reforms that stop many of the abusive practices of the healthcare industry. In truth, this is a bill that the GOP should be supporting from a policy standpoint, but they've entrenched themselves so firmly, they have nowhere to manuever. But now, even with a benign bill, the GOP leadership is whipping their fringe into a frenzy with their rhetoric. Need an example? Here is Minority Leader John Boehner, speaking about a congressional Dem:

"Take [Rep.] Steve Driehaus, for example He may be a dead man. He can’t go home to the west side of Cincinnati."

Driehaus has received death threats, and a blogger posted Driehaus' brother's home address, thinking it was the congressman's. The brother's gas line was cut on his house.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 3/25/10 at 9:30am

The gas line incident was a different congressman: Tom Perrielo of Virginia.

For Congressman Driehaus, Boehner not only said "he is a dead man" but a picture of he and his family was published in the local paper. There were threats to hold a rally at his houose in Ohio on Sunday.
7

[tom5515]

Posted: 3/25/10 at 4:01pm

Thank you very much madbrian, that is very interesting.

[Trainwreck]

Posted: 3/25/10 at 4:13pm

I just want to point out that not only crazy right-wing conservatives are against this bill. I am a liberal-leaning Libertarian who believes in upholding civil liberties and protecting the constitution.

While "health care for all" is something I am very much in favor of, I don't understand how the government forcing me to buy a product or face a fine/jail time is constitutional. Nor do I have any idea how they plan to pay for the government assistance being given to those who can't afford coverage.

And if you don't think private healthcare costs will go up after they start treating those with pre-existing conditions, you are either crazy or stupid. Maybe both.

It's typical of any politician to say "look at all these really awesome things you get with our bill" and call anyone who opposes the bill heartless, or telling me I don't care about people. That is not true. I care about people, and I think this bill is not good for the American people in the long term.

It will increase our national debt. It is illogical to think otherwise unless taxes are raised significantly on the middle-class. Just raising taxes on those who make 250k+ (which I am in favor of) will not close that gap. I would like to hear the supporters of this bill tell me how we will afford health coverage for those who didn't previously have it AS WELL AS close the national debt. You can't have both unless the American people are taxed significantly across the board.

Republicans who think this bill will make government-funded abortions easier to obtain are stupid. It won't. The law remains that you will not get government assistance except in the cases of rape, incest, or endangering the mother's health.

So my questions remain - how do we pay for this, and how is it constitutionally appropriate?

Updated On: 3/25/10 at 04:13 PM

[madbrian]

Posted: 3/25/10 at 4:25pm

While I disagree with Trainwreck, it's nice to hear a reasoned, unemotional response on the merits. Regarding the constitutionality of the bill, I'm attaching a link that explains the commerce clause. Basically, it's the same provision that allows the government to compel us to participate in social security. Regarding cost, the CBO, which is truly nonpartisan, says this will reduce the deficit. While any estimate is subject to unforseen events, the CBO is the yardstick by which bills are measured. With respect to healthcare costs going up because of the inclusion of those with pre-existing conditions, those folks are going into an insurance pool that is being subsidized by the government, and will also be offset by the inclusion of healthy young adults who can no longer opt out.
Constitutionality

[Trainwreck]

Posted: 3/25/10 at 4:34pm

Thanks MB, I'll read this later and respond in the evening.

[Trainwreck]

Posted: 3/25/10 at 5:07pm

MB - haven't had a chance to read your link, but I will in a bit. I just wanted to share this letter from James Madison with everyone. Me and the founding fathers are tight, he posted this on my Facebook page.

"The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State"

"The operations of the federal government will be most extensive and important in times of war and danger; those of the State governments, in times of peace and security. As the former periods will probably bear a small proportion to the latter, the State governments will here enjoy another advantage over the federal government."

It's an interesting read to be sure.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed45.asp


Let me be clear, also, that I believe the Patriot Act, Social Security, and Medicare should all be repealed as well. I know that's not a popular train of thought. I know Libertarianism is "fringe thinking" and "totally crazy", but oh well, I guess I felt like interjecting a 3rd point of view into this discussion.

Updated On: 3/25/10 at 05:07 PM

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 3/25/10 at 5:14pm

"Let me be clear, also, that I believe the Patriot Act, Social Security, and Medicare should all be repealed as well."

Great.

[tom5515]

Posted: 3/26/10 at 4:05pm

I think income tax should be repealed.


Does David Frum support the Health Care Bill?

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 3/26/10 at 5:59pm

Why, Tom?

[tom5515]

Posted: 3/26/10 at 6:06pm

Because people should keep the money they make.

Income tax is just an excuse to waste our money on another war.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 3/26/10 at 6:12pm

Really?

How old are you? Because you don't seem to have a clue as to how the world works.

[uncageg]

Posted: 3/27/10 at 12:20am

I heard today that some guy from the Republican Think Tank went on a few shows including Rachel Maddow and didn't really back the Republicans. He made some sort of statement that ended with him saying he thought that Fox News worked for the Republicans but now realizes the Republicans work for Fox News. The Think Tank fired him.