Here is a shocker...H.I.V. Cases on the rise for young gay men!- Page 2

[DayDreamer]

Posted: 1/2/08 at 1:39pm

I don't think so ... I think by the time we are bombarded with sex education as adults it does not sink in as well as if we had been taught earlier in life.

Also, the current focus is one of fear, when I think the focus should be, like you said, common sense. The "fear" factor is what causes the burn out, I think.

Also, in a way, for gays and lesbians I think sex is a rebellion of sorts - finally being able to BE who we truly are and rebel against what we've been told is wrong. I don't think people think very rationally when they rebel.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 1/2/08 at 1:43pm

"It's awful to say it, but the only thing that will change behavior in the 20-something and 30-something generations is what changed it ours: losing friends and lovers, going to hospitals, going to a different memorial service each week, watching friends die horrible, grueling, way-too-early deaths.

And the band plays on..."


Amen

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/2/08 at 2:30pm

It's weird, tho, because we don't actually WISH things were as bad as they were for the first decade and a half of the epidemic so that people could "learn" by living thru the horrible experience.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 1/2/08 at 2:31pm

Right. So what do we do? Seriously.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 1/2/08 at 2:36pm

This generation of young folks think they know it all. They refuse to listen to ANYONE who might have experience.

It's really sad that, at a time when there is SO MUCH information out there, people just don't bother paying attention.

Since I just spent the last couple of months going through my storage unit, I was reminded of all of those friends that I lost.

I'm open to hearing any suggestions. Maybe an ad campaign with before and after pictures of people that have died?

[robbiej]

Posted: 1/2/08 at 2:47pm

THIS generation??? That's every generation. Sure, it looks worse now cause we're the ones looking back.

I don't know that I would have any good suggestions for this. We're not just dealing with a health issue. We're dealing with deep cultural differences on what it means for a man to have sex with another man. I don't think I'm equipped to address those.

[robbiej]

Posted: 1/2/08 at 2:47pm

I'm not even equipped to deal with double postings!

Updated On: 1/2/08 at 02:47 PM

[Jonny boy]

Posted: 1/2/08 at 2:48pm

"This generation of young folks think they know it all. They refuse to listen to ANYONE who might have experience.

It's really sad that, at a time when there is SO MUCH information out there, people just don't bother paying attention."

Wow ... I agree with you TheatreDiva=-)

I have to say that what you said is right on! Growing up I heard it all before and didn't ever think it would happen to me or anoyone I know.I was extremly nieve and thought that I would be able tell if someone had it , or trust that people would tell you that they were positive before you were together but, I was obviously wrong!

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/2/08 at 2:51pm

"This generation of young folks think they know it all. They refuse to listen to ANYONE who might have experience."

I understand the impulse to think/say that though I don't necessarily think it's true. Other than every generation thinks they know it all! I do think that "our generation" (and I use that term lightly, to refer to anybody who was aware of what was going on through the first few waves of AIDS-related death and destruction) DO sort of put an "ownership" on the experience the way the actual survivors of any disaster do.

And I think that might be part of the reason that this seems like "our" problem to younger people. We've made it clear that they can never understand what it was like to go thru what they did and we've also sent mixed messages like "if only you personally had to go through what WE did, then you'd be as wise as we are, but we sure hope nobody ever goes through what we did."

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 1/2/08 at 2:56pm

I specifically say 'This Generation', because the last one went through it, not knowing how it was spread, and it was a learning experience for everyone.

Now that we have the knowledge, it just seems like this next geneation doen't seem to care, or want to know. They just have an attitude of, "Whatever. I'll just take the pills."

Maybe if they SAW the full effects of AIDS and how it can destroy people, it would have an impact.

It's just a thought. I thought were were coming up with ideas here.

[robbiej]

Posted: 1/2/08 at 2:56pm

The "mixed message" is a really good point and one that I haven't really considered until you just wrote that.

I'm in between the generation of men who dealt with it head on and the generation of younger gay men for whom the whole concept is theoretical. Young enough to have missed the direct hit of the disease, but old enough to remember what that time was like, culturally.

How does one impart knowledge and context without appearing condescending? And how does one do it to people with a completely different cultural reference regarding MSM situations.

[colleen_lee]

Posted: 1/2/08 at 2:56pm

It's not just young gay men, HIV cases are on the rise for many demographics in the U.S., especially black and Hispanic women. Even senior citizens have seen the rate amongst their demographic go up.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 1/2/08 at 3:01pm

"How does one impart knowledge and context without appearing condescending? And how does one do it to people with a completely different cultural reference regarding MSM situations. "

PERFECT!


Now, let's figure out how...

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 1/2/08 at 3:01pm

Now that we have the knowledge, it just seems like this next geneation doen't seem to care, or want to know. They just have an attitude of, "Whatever. I'll just take the pills."

But WHO are these people? That's what I keep trying to figure out. Who looks at a protease-inhibitor ad and says, "Hey, that guy looks healthy. I can bareback and take pills!"

And can we knock off the next generation crap? The men I see trolling for bareback sex online cross all age groups.
Updated On: 1/2/08 at 03:01 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/2/08 at 3:03pm

"not knowing how it was spread, and it was a learning experience for everyone."

But, TD, a lot, and I mean a LOT of men from our generation got infected well after people knew how it was spread. One of the things that I find so frustrating about somebody like Larry Kramer is how he hectors younger men (in speeches) with warnings that they must never, EVER, so much as perform oral sex on a man who is not wearing a condom because if they do, all gay men will die off.

While in the same speeches he talks about getting infected well after he knew how the virus is spread and in fact, he knew who he got HIV from and he knew that he (Kramer) was acting in a self-destructive mode because of a recent break up or separation or something.

I think there is a big tendency for people like that to let themselves off the hook without acknowledging that sex is a multi-faceted emotional minefield for all of us, and that it's complicated as hell.

[Jonny boy]

Posted: 1/2/08 at 3:05pm

The Meds are doing amazing things for people with HIV but I do think it gives a false sense of security to people who don't have it and don't really see the nasty side to the disease.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 1/2/08 at 3:07pm

Then again, the issue here isn't AIDS education, it's common sense.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 1/2/08 at 3:08pm

as opposed to its kind, gentle and slightly fuzzy side?

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 1/2/08 at 3:14pm

True Namo! Very well said!

And PRS, I am with you in saying, "Who are these people?"

I lived my life as if I had HIV/AIDS. I just got tested for the first time in October, and after getting a negative test, I realized that I had been living my whole life waiting for the other shoe to drop. It was never a question of IF but WHEN. And that's from teachings like Larrys.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 1/2/08 at 3:25pm

First let me say that I am SHOCKED this thread has not been derailed by some schmuck.
Now:
Diva, when you say: I lived my life as if I had HIV/AIDS. I just got tested for the first time in October, and after getting a negative test, I realized that I had been living my whole life waiting for the other shoe to drop. it disturbs me.
At your age, to never have been tested? And then to say “I lived my life as if I had HIV/AIDS?” No you didn’t. If you had done that you would have known years ago that you were not infected with the virus. You would have been to your doctor. I am sorry, but that is pretty naïve. I know you didn’t mean it that way, but that is kind of a cop out. I am glad that you took the attitude that you must protect your partner/s and yourself at all costs, but that is really only half of the solution.

This whole converstation, although focused on H.I.V infection and unsafe sex could just as easily be about smoking cigarettes or drug use or alcohol consumption. The information is THERE that partaking in these things can not do anything but harm you, people start smoking and drinking and taking drugs everyday.
As a wise old woman I know said recently, “It it the, “Hey, not ME!” syndrome.

[Jonny boy]

Posted: 1/2/08 at 3:30pm

"I lived my life as if I had HIV/AIDS. I just got tested for the first time in October, and after getting a negative test, I realized that I had been living my whole life waiting for the other shoe to drop"

I found that very true for myself also...... everytime I got tested I assumed I would show up positive. As wrong or bad as it sounds, It was like I was almost waiting for the inevitable.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/2/08 at 3:30pm

I waited years and years as well TD. And it was so ingrained that "we all have it" that when my doctor told me I was negative I said, "Wow, you know, I could have been on treatment the whole time I didn't know" and he said, "Except you're negative," and I said, "Oh yeah, RIGHT!"

And of course the problem with the scenario that Kramer describes is that he sets up all sex acts as equally risky (EVERY penis in your mouth must have a condom on it or all gay men will die off!) when all sex acts are NOT equally risky. By equating them, people are doomed to failure.... "Well, I performed oral on a guy and he wasn't wearing a condom so I might as well not wear them for intercourse" sounds ridiculous when said out loud but it isn't that much of a stretch for somebody who takes words like Kramer's to heart.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 1/2/08 at 3:34pm

"At your age, to never have been tested? And then to say “I lived my life as if I had HIV/AIDS?” No you didn’t"

How can you tell me what I did or didn't do?

I DID live my life as if I was infected. I always played safe.

And, yes, I know it was wrong of me to wait, but when you grow up thinking "WHEN" not "IF", that's how I decided to deal with it. I'm not saying it was right, but I figured if I found out I was positive, it would destroy me, so I was just going to live my life until I got sick.

That was a choice MANY people made.

[Calvin]

Posted: 1/2/08 at 3:35pm

I agree, Namo. The school system does the same thing with drug prevention programs. When a few puffs of marijuana doesn't make a kid think he can fly off a 10-story apartment building, he'll also start to question all he's been told about stuff that really can mess you up.
Updated On: 1/2/08 at 03:35 PM

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 1/2/08 at 3:35pm

That was a choice MANY people made.

So, it would seem that the older generation is no better than the younger.