Hillary STILL hasn't gotten the message! — Page 4

Fellow Obama supporters will shout me down, but... Reading the pieces in today's Times by Krugman and Faludi, one politically pragmatic, one a useful step back, from sociological perspectve made me realize how critical it is that Clinton continue on for the next month, as long as she takes the high road she astutely adopted in Morgantown. We do not need a perceived martyr to a cause, and that's the danger in anyone attempting to deny the final playout. That vibe is already creeping in -- Hillary will be remembered as What Might Have Been, because she'll be forced out before a final decision. We've come this far, let's finish. Another month will not hurt, and I heard something very persuasive yesterday: the most powerful campaign team in the general would be Bill Clinton and Barak Obama. If those two men could appear together, after Hillary completes her own journey as a candidate (yes, whatever the outcome, I'll buy the possibility of an upset), the party might come together. The Democratic Party is indebted to the Clintons, and I now really get how critical it is that we not alienate them, or their base. I used to be a rabid Bill supporter, and would love to be again. I'm not alone. We true believers in the 90s would like to have our cake and eat it to -- move forward with respect for the past connected to a viable approach to November.

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I'm surprised that she hasn't dropped the "N" word yet.

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And what I'm really sick of is people implying that the Clintons would resort to racism to win. Given their history with Civil Rights, it's such an insult. At the most cynical, they wouldn't be stupid enough to do something that would offend target voters from voting for them.

Anyway, as for PJ's pessimism--look, Obama has some obstacles in winning this and it does no good pretending in rainbows and unicorns. We have to address the real issues--the hard work ahead if we are going to win.

This matchup just got worse for Obama:
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Obama/Maps/May09.html

Granted, Hillary's lead went down 13 electoral votes, but she still wins:
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Clinton/Maps/May09.html

We have to work with reality and get Obama above 270.

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I'm one who would rather Hillary continue down this path. Let it play out. Let it end on some sort of 'high note' for all involved. I think that's probably best for everyone.

But the thing that gets me is the 'pessimism/realism' argument. This outcome should NEVER HAVE HAPPENED. Ever. What Barak Obama has built thus far is remarkable. The realism everyone was dealing with just a few months ago had Hillary grabbing the nomination quickly...then Obama was doing better than expected, so everyone thought he would be the perfect VP for her. Unbeatable. And then.

I don't know how you look at the last few months and know what the outcome will be in November. I don't know how you look at the last few months and even feel remotely certain about the outcome in November.

My brother-in-law is a gay Republican Washington insider. Just a few months ago, he declared with certainty that it was a Romney/Clinton race. Obama was laughed off and he couldn't stop talking about the Shakepearean implosion of McCain and how THAT was the real story of the upcoming election cycle. Now, to quote STEEL MAGNOLIAS because why not, he doesn't know whether to scratch his watch or wind his butt.

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It's all about the Electoral College. Democrats always forget about the Electoral College.

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actually, I wasn't trying to make a fairytale/messiah slam. Now that I am backing obama, I don't care how or why people vote for him.

The reality I am going on is this:

--the electoral polling is scary at the moment and has been. We need to fight hard in swing states

--the first woman president or person of color president is going to be an uphill climb whoever the candidate
Yes, obama has created a wonderful campaign and I am counting on people being wrong about his chances. I think we can win this --but with much work.

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Hillary has lost this primary. There in so advantage to the party for her to keep campaigning.

I do hope that if she stays in, she at LEAST focuses her campaign on HER positives and McCain's negatives and doesn't keep trashing her own party's nominee.

And for those who want her to win a primary AND THEN drop out-- HUH???

Right on Auggie....

I'd be mad too if the situation were reversed. But if you support Hillary it makes no sense to turn around and support McCain. If people do that, then you never really supported Hillary's policies at all, just HER. Just like if the Obama people voted for McCain--we've said time and again here that their policy views are almost the same.

So why would a Clinton backer or an Obama backer vote against his or her own principles?

If we have the same turnout for the general that we had for the primaries, we will have no trouble in defeating Chill Wills--I mean John McCain.

With ya there, Auggie.

I nearly threw up reading Krugman's piece. After his excoriations of Obama, to sit back and be like, well, now ya have to work hard, Black Man is just too much to bear.

Which is why I appreciate jrb's response in that WE ALL have to work hard. And that's actually what I responded to most in Obama. The call to all of us to work to make our democracy work for us. After 7+ years of feeling helpless, it's nice to be asked to join in.

Yes...Obama has to work hard. Just as he has been the past year. Do people really think what he did was a cakewalk? Something that just landed in his lap? I just don't get it.

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"Hillary has lost this primary. There in so advantage to the party for her to keep campaigning."

I agree to the extent that if she continues to campaign and bash Obama, she's only hurting his and her party's chances of winning in November. But if she stays in and goes after McCain instead of Obama, and then exits gracefully and throws her full support behind Obama, she could actually end up doing some good, especially if she winds up being the VP nominee. So, I'll go along with her staying in it until the biter end, provided she doesn't resort to Obama bashing. As for her being the VP nominee, I have absolutely no problem with it and think it would be a pretty unbeatable ticket.

And let me add that I understand where PJ is coming from in thinking that Obama doesn't stand a chance of winning in November. It's definitely going to be an uphill battle. I'm not naive enough to believe that it won't be. A rather dim-witted co-worker (and Democrat) announced to me earlier today that she would NEVER vote for Obama under any circumstances. She'll vote for McCain before she votes for Obama even though McCain is opposed to everything she believes in. When asked why, her answer was that she doesn't go for the people that Obama associates with; Reverend Wright, Farrakhan, Al Sharpton (?!?); she just won't have any of it! She then was quick to add that she doesn't have a prejudiced bone in her body. Yeah, right. That's the mentality that we're dealing with. That's why, as I've previously stated, I lost all faith, hope and respect in the American people about 8 years ago, and in truth, probably a lot longer before then.

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Updated On: 5/9/08 at 12:58 PM

"Does it bother her to see George W holding hands with the Saudis?"

Good question, lildogs. I'll make a point of asking her that.

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Updated On: 5/9/08 at 01:08 PM

I'm all for Bill Clinton and Obama breaking bread together in public as soon as the nomination is sewn up.

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as far as mccain being weak after that nc showing?

back in 2000 he endorsed dubya on may 9th.

two weeks later, bush only managed to get 73.5% of the vote in idaho's primary.

hell, even as late as the last primary alan keyes was still pulling 8% and johnny mac - long gone from the race - pulled 14%.

and we know how awful dubya turned out to be...as a candidate.

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