Hugh's long time (Business) Partner Photos!- Page 6
Hugh's long time (Business) Partner Photos!
#125ghmm
Posted: 9/20/05 at 10:33pm
This is all so circular -- you believe that Jackman says he's straight, yet suddenly he's a reason to go after all people who remain closeted.
I don't even know what you're trying to say anymore -- that you can't have privacy until you have civil rights? They don't go hand-in-hand. People should be able to f*ck whoever they want and to LOVE whoever they want without people having to gossip about it for whatever mundane reason they see fit -- and that's not a Constitutional right.
And nice when you have the rights to do WHAT? You make it sound like being gay has retracted your freedom of speech -- and that's none but playing victim.
#127ghmm
Posted: 9/20/05 at 10:34pm
Sorry, but the issue of out/closeted people, especially famous people is very tied to the issues of equality in America. Those who fight to suppress us try to
1. paint very negative pictures of us
2. claim that there aren't that many of us
And, the idea is that if every single gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered person were to wake up with a purple glow, the world would be changed forever.
Updated On: 9/20/05 at 10:34 PM
insomniak
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/7/04
#129ghmm
Posted: 9/20/05 at 10:37pm
Selective reader, Mr. gymman, take another look. "in the minds of most open-minded people" Those websites fall nowhere under that jurisdiction. You're grabbing at straws.
JRB, you're mixing the paint for that portrait by stabbing any potential allies in the eyes with your brushes.
Again, famous people are people. They didn't sign up to be your icon.
#130ghmm
Posted: 9/20/05 at 10:37pm
I recognize that it's attached to equality -- this is such a hard debate to have, especially in text-type, without accidentally looking like I mean maliciousness. Hopefully you have seen enough of what I have to say over the nearly two years that I've been around these parts to know that's not how I feel.
The suppression issue is sort of split, though -- suppression in terms of people who are anti-gay, or in terms of people who stay in the closet out of fear/shame/whatever word you want to use? I don't know that I can respond to that, but I'm not sure what you meant.
Unknown User
Joined: 12/31/69
#132ghmm
Posted: 9/20/05 at 10:39pm
"And nice when you have the rights to do WHAT? You make it sound like being gay has retracted your freedome of speech -- and that's none but playing victim. "
The rights?
1. I have been denied hospital visitations to my dying partner.
2. I can not co-adopt my partner's son in Florida.
3. I cannot file joint income taxes.
4. I cannot marry.
5. I cannot put my partner on my medical benefits.
6. I cannot have my partner with me on significant work occasions.
7. I have been fired from a job for being gay, and have no recourse.
So much for free speech. Your post shows who you are.
insomniak
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/7/04
#133ghmm
Posted: 9/20/05 at 10:39pm
Nothing will change until both sides kick the homo AND heterophobia to the curb.
Again, going back to mine and Emcee's examples. Tony Kushner and Anthony Rapp are well rounded, intelligent gay men who don't feel the need to demonize straight people. Recognize this as an alliance and not traitorism.
#135ghmm
Posted: 9/20/05 at 10:42pm
gymman, PLEASE don't tell me that I don't understand because I'm not a gay man. I've heard it enough, and I find it absolutely sickening. I don't need to hear it again. Tell it to someone who doesn't show an ounce of support, not someone who wishes she could do more than BE supportive. To imply things like that puts you as low down as the people who you believe to be closed minded.
Again, I repeat -- the list of rights you've tossed at me in that post have naught to do with the issue I keep rehashing when these sorts of things come up -- it's like an opportunity for some stupid straight girl to be taught a lesson, isn't it? Like I say, preach to someone who NEEDS to hear it. I don't. Look around.
insomniak
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/7/04
insomniak
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/7/04
#139ghmm
Posted: 9/20/05 at 10:45pm
"Appreciation for broccoli and cauliflower will never gain wide-spread acceptance until every human being who loves broccoli and cauliflower steps forwards and admits their love for these misunderstood vegetable."
I adore brocoli but don't talk about it because it's just not that important to me as a human. I think that if someone likes these vegetables but would rather not talk about it because it's a stupid detail to be ridiculed over, I'd say they were perfectly justified.
#140ghmm
Posted: 9/20/05 at 10:47pm
What? How dare you say I'm attacking -- and worse yet, imply that it's because you're gay. How dare you tell me that I see gay men as "house slaves." What puts you on authority to tell me what *I* think about people who are my friends and my heroes? You're unbelievable.
And how do I respond to "these?" These = what? I'm lost.
You're only proving my point in that you're using this as an excuse to preach. I don't know why I'm a target -- I've said nothing derogatory.
#143ghmm
Posted: 9/20/05 at 10:51pm
No. I brought up free speech BEFORE you posted that list. And then I said that those rights had nothing to do with the point I was MAKING in talking about free speech -- you're running with this thing like a kite -- and it's not my problem to sit here and show you the string. You can read back as well as I can and see how it got here -- it's because you're stretching the issue.
What do you want me to say? Look around you -- I think it's all terrible, all of those things. I don't owe you an explanation of WHY these things are important to me, or who and what have been responsible for putting my opinions of it all where they lie. But how do you want me to respond to them? With a letter to the government? I don't see why I'm being attacked, other than to be made an example of. Make an example of someone who deserves it. I'm all BUT anti-gay.
Unknown User
Joined: 12/31/69
insomniak
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/7/04
#145ghmm
Posted: 9/20/05 at 10:58pm
gymman, when you talk as though every gay should denounce heterosexuality and then tell us that we are primitive enough to want to treat gays like slaves, then yes, I would call that a definite slam on straight people.
The philosophies of rights are interesting. I'm reading Kissinger's Diplomacy for class right now and he compares two very different defintions of rights. The one that we as people living in America are most familiar with is Wilson's view; that rights are guaranteed by law and can be granted. Conversly, Metternich believed that rights were a natural thing and simply understood. Laws were irrelevant and rights were purely humane.
I tend to agree with Metternich. A person's right to be is 'there', but in this day and age of tainted humanity, Wilson's policy of legal enforcement is necessary. I don't think many would disagree with me on this point, but it fits into Gymman's complaints.
You have the 'right' to complain because you are human, (in mine and Metternich's opinion). Even though your message might be ignored, you can still deliver it. You can state it with dignity and understanding or you can stomp your feet and blame it upon legal restriction. Think about what these views mean- are can you use rights to change the man-made law? And what other rights exist? I am and will argue that the right to oneself is very real. A person should be who they want to be, regardless of self-imposed closets or not. But if you want anyone to hear the right that you excersize in speaking out, you're going to have to respect other people's rights of being themselves.
Years of violence between blacks and whites didn't help, but a rational Dr. Martin Luther King made all the difference.
#146ghmm
Posted: 9/20/05 at 10:59pm
But you cite two totally "out" gay men--this is, after all, the issue here. If they can be out, why cannot others? They are wonderful, I agree. But earlier, you might have seen, I was attacked for "outing" NPH, when that was not my intention; so why ought it to matter? So he's gay? So what? Does it make him anything less? That's all I am trying to get across, not attack you or anyone, as I am sure you are a wonderful and supportive person.
I think, perhaps, that this forum sometimes leads us to SOUND differently than we would in person; I want all the straight allies that we can get! We need you all...
#147ghmm
Posted: 9/20/05 at 11:02pm
"when you talk as though every gay should denounce heterosexuality and then tell us that we are primitive enough to want to treat gays like slaves, then yes, I would call that a definite slam on straight people."
Denounce heterosexuality? Where in the hell did I do that? I would denounce my parents, my brother, most of mu best friends? I am totally confused, and I think you have seriously misinterpreted some things; it goes without saying, however, that you have rights that I do not have, and that is simply a fact.
insomniak
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/7/04
#149ghmm
Posted: 9/20/05 at 11:03pm
If they can be out, why cannot others?
Because, put plain and simply, it's a personal decision. And they've made a different decision than someone like NPH has. And those two, along with NPH have made different decisions than several who shall, for such reasons, remain unnamed. For WHATEVER reasons, of which it's too complex to get into, it's personal. See that for what it's worth, without reading into why they're not out, and how they should be, etc, etc. Just read it for what I'm saying. If you "need" us, just do that much.
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