I hate to bring war/politics up on the board.....

[Lorelai]

Posted: 12/14/03 at 5:57am

...but I just heard they (most likely) have captured Saddam Hussein has been captured. It's about 5:45 EST. I'm only awake cause I'm not feeling well and just caught the special report when it came up on the news...

I'm not taking any position because I know how some people get out of hand when members do...so...i'm just reporting...

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 12/14/03 at 7:02am

Well they should capture Bush too... I don't like either of them.

Damn the moron Shrub.. something good starts to happen for me and he has to ruin it.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 12/14/03 at 9:14am

Phew! No we're safe from all of his weapons of mass destruction! We don't have to worry about all those nuclear bombs he was making from the uranium he bought from Africa!

[magruder]

Posted: 12/14/03 at 9:39am

Although Saddam's capture is truly heartening news, I do hope that the U.S. doesn't end up setting up a government in Iraq that becomes yet another dictatorship. I have a feeling that many will feel the Iraq problem is now taken care of, and once the country reaches some degree of normalcy (in relative terms), we clear out, only for someone worse to emerge. If you look at U.S. history in international affairs over the past 50 years, we do not have a great success rate in these situations.

On a less positive note...I figure that now we'll end up with Bush for four more years. At least the Avenue Q lyric will remain current.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 12/14/03 at 9:44am

I don't know about that Magruder. Just because they caught Sadaam doesn't mean the troubles in Iraq are over. In fact the rebellion over there hasn't even been led by him. This is a bit of good news that will fade fast as our troops keep getting killed.

[magruder]

Posted: 12/14/03 at 9:50am

Erik -

Not sure what you are responding to in my post...My tone is not generally optimistic, despite this considerable achivement.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 12/14/03 at 9:55am

I was responding to your suggestion that this means Bush will be back for four more years.

[magruder]

Posted: 12/14/03 at 10:28am

Ah! OK. Wasn't sure what part of my post you were responding to. Still, I expect that Bush's approval rating will shoot up after this, in that typical jingoistic American fashion.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 12/14/03 at 10:34am

Yeah...I agree it will shoot up too. But I suspect (and hope) it will be temporary as the problems in Iraq continue...

[Auggie27]

Posted: 12/14/03 at 1:15pm

I was happy to find this thread. I've been unnerved by the coverage of this story all a.m. This whole air of triumph feels like the Bush ship landing, the posed turkey picture. Such a capture is historically more significant, to be sure, but it's being used as a symbol of the success of Bush's power trip. I hate to be cynical, but it's hardly the "end" of an era for Iraq or us. The problems there, the insurgents' attacks, guerilla warfare and day-to-day terrorism, the corruption, the manipulation of the spoils of war by Halliburton and others -- all of that will remain, as fresh, more complex problems are created.

We went to war to remove a supposedly direct threat to US, after the Bush admin make repeated erronious connections to 9/11. The capture of one tyrant UNrelated to our terrorists attacks -- how does that translate into a safer America, no matter how good it is for Iraqi people? I'm no isolationist, but I see this capture as a blip -- and sadly, possible provocation for more loss of American life, less stability for that country as more factions fight harder to be in charge (and get rid of the occupiers--US), i.e. ultimately nobody's concept of "peace."

[TheaterBaby]

Posted: 12/14/03 at 3:50pm

I was happy to hear he was captured, but I hope this doesn't mean that the heads of the U.S. government are going to sit back and relax. If anything we need to be more cautious because now there are going to be some VERY angry Saddam followers looking for revenge. He is just an icon to them. There are still a lot of pieces missing in that puzzle.

This war is far from over folks.

[BwayTheatre11]

Posted: 12/14/03 at 5:07pm

Ya, I went to bed at 3:00 am and woke up at 8:00 am to see Freeman from FAME perform, but nooooo...Sadam had to be captured. If I saw that clip one more time!!

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 12/14/03 at 5:29pm

I recently had a cab driver from Iraq. He served on Saddam's army (not by choice) during the first Gulf War. He was captured by the US and offered a job in the American Military as a translator. He hails Bush as a hero and related very specific horror stories he witnessed under Saddam's rule. He said Bush was the only person in the world who had the guts to help out the citizens of Iraq, whatever the true motive. It was a rather eye-opening testament.

[MasterLcZ]

Posted: 12/14/03 at 5:57pm

Of course, it is very convienient that Saddam, despot that he undoubtedly was, just happened to be sitting on the second-largest oil reserves in the world.

It's nice that the world is rid of one tiny tin-pot dictator. But there are far worse dictators the U.S. can't be bothered with, as they don't have anything we want to steal.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 12/14/03 at 10:01pm

Politics is like sexual orientation. One determines it's everyone's business or no one's.


Bulldog.

[DonelBee]

Posted: 12/15/03 at 1:15am

Does anyone else suspect a "Wag the Dog" type of diversionary tactic here with Sadam's capture happening just days after the revelation of the alledged Halliburton debacle?

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 12/15/03 at 6:07am

Paranoia will destroy ya

[iflitifloat]

Posted: 12/15/03 at 6:59am

I'm with Donel...although I was thinking more along the lines of "just in time for the holidays" maximum-good-will impact.

Trust no one, Mr. Mulder.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 12/15/03 at 8:44am

I don't know if I'm convinced that the timing of the capture was planned. But this Administration seems to have really good luck when it comes to getting good news during times of impending scandel. Remember Enron?

[Auggie27]

Posted: 12/15/03 at 9:24am

I loved reading all these posts about timing, about the power of the image. No one denies that a monster has been removed. But this is not a video game. The complexity of reactions must be studied. In today's TImes there is an eye-opening view ofhow this is being seen in the Arab world. Some, in major denial, see Wag the Dog. Some just see major Arab humiliation. This man wasn't taken by his own people-- he was grabbed by "occupiers." We can debate what it means to US forever; how that part of the world sees this coup at our hands is another matter. And no matter what anyone says, perception is critical.

[iflitifloat]

Posted: 12/15/03 at 10:08am

Seriously, I don't really believe that this was scripted to occur for the holidays. But I'm not at all optimistic about how Saddam's capture is perceived by those who hate us the most. This administration has an astounding lack of cultural and religious sensitivity. The condescending and arrogant manner in which the US conducts its world affairs is inflammatory. I personally fell less safe than I did two days ago.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 12/15/03 at 10:24am

well, wag the dog and all the other conspiracy theories aside (my mother is sure that they were keeping saddam in the same spot where they held vince foster's body...next to jimmy hoffa), the biggest thing that this will do id force a re-evaluation of saddam's myth in the arab world. while he was seen as a bully and a braggart and a hundred other bad things in the arab world, he was also seen as the guy who was willing to stand up to the u.s.

the method of his capture, however, goes a great way towards dispelling this myth. while his sons went down like heroes in some arab eyes, fighting valiantly against the "crusaders," saddam went with a whimper. after all his bravado of swearing he'd never be taken alive, he handed over his pistol and walked out. they didn't even bother with handcuffs. a line which will be repeated throughout the muslim world (and i don't know how this will ultimately play) will be his response to a shia member of the governing council mowaffak al-rubaie's, "why didn't you fight?" saddam gestured towards the americans guarding him and said simply, "would you have fought them?"

the humiliation that comes from him being captured by "infidels" will, i think, be outweighed in the muslim world by yet another example of a leader whose brash words energized and exhorted others to give their lives but who when the time came for him to live up to that ideal was unwilling to make the same sacrifice that he demanded and even required of others.

just my 38 1/2 cents...

[DonelBee]

Posted: 12/15/03 at 10:26am

Mr Roxy -- "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you."

[MasterLcZ]

Posted: 12/15/03 at 10:32am

Saddam wasn't caught by suprise.

Everything about the way he looked and his resignation leads me to believe he was held captive for quite a while.

This is not as neat and clean as the press is making it out to be. And I don't think for a minute his capture will mean no more dead soldiers.

[Auggie27]

Posted: 12/15/03 at 12:28pm

Amen, Master.

Today's Bush press conference -- as political as his Midnight Turkey Trot to Bagdad -- was notable for W's constant use of the phrase "the time for politics will come..." as if today's bragging fest, interrupting everything but HBO, wasn't a poltiical moment orchestrated by the spinmeister from hell, Karl Rove.