#1
Posted: 6/18/08 at 12:58am
What kind of time would a woman who had an abortion get?
If Roe v Wade were to be overturned....
#2
Posted: 6/18/08 at 1:05am
Lifetime.
*ba dump chh*
*ba dump chh*
Salve, Regina, Mater misericordiae
Vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra
Salve, Salve Regina
Ad te clamamus exsules filii Eva
Ad te suspiramus, gementes et flentes
O clemens O pia
Vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra
Salve, Salve Regina
Ad te clamamus exsules filii Eva
Ad te suspiramus, gementes et flentes
O clemens O pia
#3
Posted: 6/18/08 at 1:32am
The death penalty. Because EVERY LIFE IS PRECIOUS. 
Like a firework unexploded
Wanting life but never knowing how
Wanting life but never knowing how
#4
Posted: 6/18/08 at 2:02am
Abortion clinics would open up in other countries where it is legal, to serve the American demand. Actually, clinic ships could operate in international waters off the American coast. America can not legislate abortion laws in other countries and on ships registered in other countries.
Americans don't realize they still eat produce sprayed with DDT - imported. Making something illegal in America does not stop something from happening. It just gives an illusion of peace of mind to those who are upset by such things.
Having said that, I am opposed to abortion on principle, but the situation is more complex than simply passing a law. Ultimately, each individual woman (and partner) bears the responsibility of the decision and result.
Americans don't realize they still eat produce sprayed with DDT - imported. Making something illegal in America does not stop something from happening. It just gives an illusion of peace of mind to those who are upset by such things.
Having said that, I am opposed to abortion on principle, but the situation is more complex than simply passing a law. Ultimately, each individual woman (and partner) bears the responsibility of the decision and result.
#6
Posted: 6/18/08 at 5:54am
Abortion is illegal here (there was a referendum in 1983 which confirmed its illegality, and again in 1992 there was a vote on allowing it which was defeated), but women here do go to England to have abortions, and it's not an issue when they return. The constitution says that the prohibition of abortion here cannot limit freedom of travel.
The rain we knew is a thing of the past -
deep-delving, dark, deliberate you would say
browsing on spire and bogland; but today
our sky-blue slates are steaming in the sun,
our yachts tinkling and dancing in the bay
like racehorses. We contemplate at last
shining windows, a future forbidden to no one.
Derek Mahon
"Maybe all one can do is hope to end up with the right regrets."
Arthur Miller
deep-delving, dark, deliberate you would say
browsing on spire and bogland; but today
our sky-blue slates are steaming in the sun,
our yachts tinkling and dancing in the bay
like racehorses. We contemplate at last
shining windows, a future forbidden to no one.
Derek Mahon
"Maybe all one can do is hope to end up with the right regrets."
Arthur Miller
#7
Posted: 6/18/08 at 7:02am
the kind of fun times that only rusty hangers in dark alleys can provide.
....but the world goes 'round
#8
Posted: 6/18/08 at 9:27am
Why are liberals such drama queens? Everyone said when Reagan was elected that RvW would be overturned. Everyone said when GWB was elected that RvW would be overturned. So far it hasn't happened. I think liberals want it overturned so they will have one more thing to crab about.
If anyone ever tells you that you put too much Parmesan cheese on your pasta, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
Updated On: 6/18/08 at 09:27 AM
#9
Posted: 6/18/08 at 9:34am
By the time the next President takes office, six of the nine Justices will be at least 69 years old. If this President serves two terms, his impact on the SCOTUS will be profound.
"It does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are 20 gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg."
-- Thomas Jefferson
#10
Posted: 6/18/08 at 10:46am
Who's a drama queen? I was asking a question. If abortion becomes illegal and and a woman obtains an illegal abortion in this country (I'm not talking about a woman who would go to another country to obtain one legally), what do the anti-abortion folks propose is an appropriate sentence for the woman who has the abortion?
A better question might be why are conservatives so opposed to critical thinking? If abortion were to become a criminal act, that criminal act would have consequences. I'm curious to know what those consequences would be.
A better question might be why are conservatives so opposed to critical thinking? If abortion were to become a criminal act, that criminal act would have consequences. I'm curious to know what those consequences would be.
Updated On: 6/18/08 at 10:46 AM
#11
Posted: 6/18/08 at 10:57am
If Roe is overturned, abortion would not be illegal across the board, but left to the states, as it was before Roe. I believe about 13 states had some form of abortion available before Roe was issued.
It would mean that abortion would be an option of the wealthy and mobile, and not of the poor.
Those with money and means would travel to other states to have procedures performed. Those who cannot, would either look for illegal options locally, try to do something themselves, or have the child.
It would mean that abortion would be an option of the wealthy and mobile, and not of the poor.
Those with money and means would travel to other states to have procedures performed. Those who cannot, would either look for illegal options locally, try to do something themselves, or have the child.
#12
Posted: 6/18/08 at 11:04am
I don't know what the sentence would be, but let's not leave out the schlub who got the woman pregnant. He'd have to share in the entire experience, whatever it may be.
#13
Posted: 6/18/08 at 11:23am
So what happens to the poor women who are discovered to have procurred an illegal abortion? Prison?
#14
Posted: 6/18/08 at 12:06pm
I don't know what the sentence would be, but let's not leave out the schlub who got the woman pregnant. He'd have to share in the entire experience, whatever it may be.
Completely agree! To be honest I never got where conservatives were coming from. If you dont believe in abortion don't have one. I mean I'm a vegetarian but that doesn't mean I want every butcher shop closed down , I just walk on by. You shouldn't be able to impose your beliefs on others. I just hope Roe v Wade is never overturned. Although it doesn't look good right now....
Completely agree! To be honest I never got where conservatives were coming from. If you dont believe in abortion don't have one. I mean I'm a vegetarian but that doesn't mean I want every butcher shop closed down , I just walk on by. You shouldn't be able to impose your beliefs on others. I just hope Roe v Wade is never overturned. Although it doesn't look good right now....
#15
Posted: 6/18/08 at 12:11pm
Well, just because he got her pregnant doesn't mean he approved (or even knew about) her terminating the pregnancy.
#16
Posted: 6/18/08 at 12:38pm
Oh sure if he didn't know that would be different.
#17
Posted: 6/18/08 at 12:51pm
Well, if there are all these regulations, then one of them should be that the guy must be informed (and if necessary, confirmed). Why should the lady have all the fun? Women are often alone enough in these situations as it is. If you make women shoulder the entire "sentence", that doesn't "teach" the men much, now does it? It takes two to tango.
#18
Posted: 6/18/08 at 12:54pm
But what if the father opposes the abortion and wishes to raise the child, on his own, without support from the mother?
"It does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are 20 gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg."
-- Thomas Jefferson
#19
Posted: 6/18/08 at 1:28pm
Yeah, but now you're talking about regulating an illegal abortion. If it's already illegal, they aren't going to make the father give his consent.
Who should get a stronger sentence? The woman who has an abortion or the person who assists her in aborting?
Who should get a stronger sentence? The woman who has an abortion or the person who assists her in aborting?
#20
Posted: 6/18/08 at 1:44pm
"what do the anti-abortion folks propose is an appropriate sentence for the woman who has the abortion? "
One thing could be to build more prisons and hire more police (and prison personnel) to enforce abortion laws.
In Nevada prostitution is legal in certain counties because the state turned the decision of legalization to the individual counties. So in America prostitution only exists in Nevada.
No, the law guarantees a certain level of safety for prostitution only in Nevada.
Is the pregnant woman the one who performs the abortion, or is it a doctor? It can only be guaranteed a qualified doctor (and clinic) in places where abortion is legal.
I am opposed to abortion in general, but I do strongly feel that abortion should be provided without contest where the fetus is not viable, or where the pregnancy threatens the life of the mother. I also feel that every woman has the right to choose who the father of her child will be. In rape or incest abortion should be allowed without contest.
There is a grey area in early-term pregnancies when a woman or girl accidently gets pregnant or simply did something she later regrets (did something stupid). Abortion should not be illegal for such cases, but I'm opposed to it.
When a man and woman have sex they are entering a pact in which there may be consequences and they need to take responsibility for those possible consequences. I support the use of contraceptives, but contraceptives don't always work. As for the anti-abortion lobby, if they were truly opposed to abortion they would not be trying to make it illegal. They would be promoting counseling services for frightened teenagers (and others) who get pregnant, trying to encourage women to deliver the baby, providing financial aid, education etc, when necessary and trying to pass laws making adoption easier for couples and singles who can not have their own children. I've seen more than one case where a woman starts out wanting an abortion, but is encouraged to have the baby and perhaps put it up for adoption, only in the end to decide to keep the child after going through the pregnancy, birth and bonding. And then years later looking back in horror at the thought that she had once considered aborting the pregnancy.
One thing could be to build more prisons and hire more police (and prison personnel) to enforce abortion laws.
In Nevada prostitution is legal in certain counties because the state turned the decision of legalization to the individual counties. So in America prostitution only exists in Nevada.
No, the law guarantees a certain level of safety for prostitution only in Nevada.
Is the pregnant woman the one who performs the abortion, or is it a doctor? It can only be guaranteed a qualified doctor (and clinic) in places where abortion is legal.
I am opposed to abortion in general, but I do strongly feel that abortion should be provided without contest where the fetus is not viable, or where the pregnancy threatens the life of the mother. I also feel that every woman has the right to choose who the father of her child will be. In rape or incest abortion should be allowed without contest.
There is a grey area in early-term pregnancies when a woman or girl accidently gets pregnant or simply did something she later regrets (did something stupid). Abortion should not be illegal for such cases, but I'm opposed to it.
When a man and woman have sex they are entering a pact in which there may be consequences and they need to take responsibility for those possible consequences. I support the use of contraceptives, but contraceptives don't always work. As for the anti-abortion lobby, if they were truly opposed to abortion they would not be trying to make it illegal. They would be promoting counseling services for frightened teenagers (and others) who get pregnant, trying to encourage women to deliver the baby, providing financial aid, education etc, when necessary and trying to pass laws making adoption easier for couples and singles who can not have their own children. I've seen more than one case where a woman starts out wanting an abortion, but is encouraged to have the baby and perhaps put it up for adoption, only in the end to decide to keep the child after going through the pregnancy, birth and bonding. And then years later looking back in horror at the thought that she had once considered aborting the pregnancy.
Updated On: 6/18/08 at 01:44 PM
#21
Posted: 6/18/08 at 2:06pm
See, this is why Row v. Wade just needs to not be overturned. Things get WAY too complicated! Because where DO you draw the line in terms of who all gets punished for it (since it ISN'T just the woman involved), how severe a punishment it is, etc. There's just no real fair way to determine it all I don't think, because each situation can be so completely and utterly different. For instance, a woman sleeps around with tons of different men and very conciously doesn't take pains to use protection because she figures she can always have an aborition, then I'd say in that situation the blame is mostly on her. Sure, the man who impregnates her is still somewhat to blame, but a lot LESS so than in other cases. On the other hand, if a woman is brutally raped and doesn't want to have to go through the physical AND emotioal pain the pregnancy will bring, how can you rightfully say she's the one to blame in the whole thing? In that case, if abortion were illegal, the man BETTER freaking be held accountable for what he did. And on one last token, if a woman comes into a doctor's office pregnant and debating whether or not to get an abortion, and the doctor very obviously sways her toward getting one, then the blame should pretty much be held on the doctor.
So yeah.. waaay too many situations. It would get far too hairy.
And that's not even touching on my own personal beliefs as to why abortion should not be illegal. (And I hate when people assume that just because a person is liberal on these views, that it means they're FOR aborton. It absolutely, 100% does NOT. Not in my case, anyway. I personally feel that abortion is a very, very serious thing and I'd really HOPE that most women would think twice before getting one. I also think- and this is a BIG thing for me- that it makes a HUGE difference what stage of pregnancy you're in when you get one. I'm completely, completely against abortions late in the game. I'm not going to lie and say I could name the specific point at which it crosses the line for me, but basically my opinion is just.. if you're GOING to do it, the earlier the better. If you've already gone 7 or 8 months through with the pregnancy, there is NO reason to have an abortion at that point. Have the baby and give it up for adoption. Unfortunately, I doubt there'd ever be a law made that makes abortion illegal ONLY after a certain point. But really, even then, when it comes down to it it's still the woman's responsibility to make the decision. If they choose to have a late-term abortion, they'll have to deal with that guilt hanging over them the rest of their lives. I really feel like the only fair way to deal with abortion is to keep that mindset: it's the woman's right and responsibility to do what they feel is right. It's their body, and no matter WHAT, no one else reserves the right to tell them what they can or can't do with it. And with that said, I would HOPE that women would have the integrity not to take advantage of that freedom and stop using protection just because they figure abortion is an out. I know it happens, but that's just the way life is. People don't always do the right thing, no matter what the situation. That doesn't mean they shouldn't have the right to CHOOSE what to do)
So yeah.. waaay too many situations. It would get far too hairy.
And that's not even touching on my own personal beliefs as to why abortion should not be illegal. (And I hate when people assume that just because a person is liberal on these views, that it means they're FOR aborton. It absolutely, 100% does NOT. Not in my case, anyway. I personally feel that abortion is a very, very serious thing and I'd really HOPE that most women would think twice before getting one. I also think- and this is a BIG thing for me- that it makes a HUGE difference what stage of pregnancy you're in when you get one. I'm completely, completely against abortions late in the game. I'm not going to lie and say I could name the specific point at which it crosses the line for me, but basically my opinion is just.. if you're GOING to do it, the earlier the better. If you've already gone 7 or 8 months through with the pregnancy, there is NO reason to have an abortion at that point. Have the baby and give it up for adoption. Unfortunately, I doubt there'd ever be a law made that makes abortion illegal ONLY after a certain point. But really, even then, when it comes down to it it's still the woman's responsibility to make the decision. If they choose to have a late-term abortion, they'll have to deal with that guilt hanging over them the rest of their lives. I really feel like the only fair way to deal with abortion is to keep that mindset: it's the woman's right and responsibility to do what they feel is right. It's their body, and no matter WHAT, no one else reserves the right to tell them what they can or can't do with it. And with that said, I would HOPE that women would have the integrity not to take advantage of that freedom and stop using protection just because they figure abortion is an out. I know it happens, but that's just the way life is. People don't always do the right thing, no matter what the situation. That doesn't mean they shouldn't have the right to CHOOSE what to do)
I don't need a life that's normal. That's way too far away. But something next to normal would be okay. Something next to normal is what I'd like to try. Close enough to normal to get by.
#22
Posted: 6/18/08 at 2:08pm
If a law is passed that places all the burden on women and not men, then this might as well be Afghanistan.
Let people decide what is best for them. If the father wants to have the child but not the mother, then that's a case by case scenario in which the couple has to decide for themselves what to do. Both parties are involved, both will have a say. That's for them to work out. Their business. That's the whole point.
I'd like to see someone criminalize war before anything else. HAH. Right.
Let people decide what is best for them. If the father wants to have the child but not the mother, then that's a case by case scenario in which the couple has to decide for themselves what to do. Both parties are involved, both will have a say. That's for them to work out. Their business. That's the whole point.
I'd like to see someone criminalize war before anything else. HAH. Right.
#23
Posted: 6/18/08 at 2:09pm
Lots of talk here and still no one's answered Phyllis' original question.
What legal ramification should there be for illegally terminating a pregnancy.
I assume there would be a trial, and it would have to be proven. And then what? Jail? A Fine? Revoke her sex license?
What legal ramification should there be for illegally terminating a pregnancy.
I assume there would be a trial, and it would have to be proven. And then what? Jail? A Fine? Revoke her sex license?
....but the world goes 'round
#24
Posted: 6/18/08 at 2:18pm
Having said that, I am opposed to abortion on principle, but the situation is more complex than simply passing a law. Ultimately, each individual woman (and partner) bears the responsibility of the decision and result.
I couldn't have said it better myself!
I couldn't have said it better myself!
"You're every gay man's wet dream!" ~ MA
If in Heaven you don't excel, you can always party down in hell...
#25
Posted: 6/18/08 at 2:33pm
That's because there IS no answer to Kringas' question. That's one of the biggest hurdles the pro-life lobby has faced since Roe v. Wade.
Legislating women's bodies is dangerous territory.
Legislating women's bodies is dangerous territory.
"You just can't win. Ever. Look at the bright side, at least you are not stuck in First Wives Club: The Musical. That would really suck. "
--Sueleen Gay
