It Doesn't Always Get Better

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 10/12/10 at 12:06pm

I feel kind of bad starting a new thread, when we have like six thousand going, but I wasn't sure where to put this and figured I'd be accused of being a downer if I brought down a peppier thread.

Christians have figured out how to live with premarital (straight) sex and back-talking teenagers. It's time they figured out how to live with boys like Zach Harrington.

And really, this is what it all boils down to. People who use religious justification for their bigotry seem to think it begins and ends with gay sex. At least when it comes to who they are out there trying to amend constitutions to discriminate against.
It Doesn't Always Get Better

Posted: 10/12/10 at 12:12pm

Can I get an AMEN, sister!?

[Kad]

Posted: 10/12/10 at 12:18pm

I agree. Telling youth that it gets better in the face of extremely vocal figures saying otherwise is not the best route. Politicians, religious leaders, and other authority figures constantly speaking out- even in the face of these suicides- are the ones that need to be targeted.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 10/12/10 at 12:36pm

Don't get me wrong - I think the campaign is great and any positive support is a good thing, but stuff like this just really depresses and disheartens me.

There does seem to be a bias (that might be unavoidable) in the campaign suggesting that these kids will have to go to a big city for things to get better, and I wonder where that leaves the gay kid who doesn't WANT big city life and would prefer smaller town life.

I guess what's becoming apparent isn't so much that it gets better, but that we're telling these kids it will get better when they go somewhere else. I dunno.

[Kad]

Posted: 10/12/10 at 12:55pm

Which, when you think about it, isn't very much different from thirty years ago.

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 10/12/10 at 1:00pm

I also don't understand why most of the messages are so morose. If you are, in theory, talking to a gay teen, then wouldn't some part of you want to appear hopeful or joyful. I think Kathy Griffin's was the best one I've seen, where she put some positive energy in it and made it funny and sweet.

I just watched Zach Quinto's where he is crying and has a score playing at the beginning and end. It's pretty freakin' depressing and wouldn't inspire me in the least. Plus, has he even come out? Not that it really matters, but it is curious if someone is not open about their sexuality and giving advice.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 10/12/10 at 4:13pm

Bettyboy, I posted this one before, but I think it speaks to your point.
Jeffery Self and Guy Branum

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 10/12/10 at 4:27pm

Not that it really matters, but it is curious if someone is not open about their sexuality and giving advice

I thought something similar, but figured I'd incite a sh*tstorm if I mentioned it!

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 10/12/10 at 4:45pm

I thought something similar, but figured I'd incite a sh*tstorm if I mentioned it!

Me too. Glad to know I'm not a monster because of it.

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 10/12/10 at 8:47pm

There does seem to be a bias (that might be unavoidable) in the campaign suggesting that these kids will have to go to a big city for things to get better, and I wonder where that leaves the gay kid who doesn't WANT big city life and would prefer smaller town life.

I definitely agree, Phyllis. I like the campaign and support it and I think I'm even guilty of somewhat buying into the "it gets better" idea, but the truth is that for a lot of people it doesn't because not everyone is able to leave Nowheresville, Arkansa and move to the big cities (of course I do think it's also a problem to depict the cities as some sort of gay utopia). There's a great book we just read for one of my seminars, it's titled "In Queer Time and Space" by Judith Halberstam and it talks precisely about that, specifically in terms of the Brandon Teena story, you should give it a read it's quite interesting.

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 10/12/10 at 9:48pm

I'm not disagreeing, but are we actually saying that the truth is killing people, so we need to lie to make that stop? That's what I'm getting out of this.

[Kad]

Posted: 10/13/10 at 12:00am

CATS- do you mean we, the posters in this thread are saying that, or that the videos are saying that?

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 10/13/10 at 12:07am

I meant we the posters. I haven't seen any videos that touch on this subject.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 10/13/10 at 12:59am

I'm still a little unclear on CATS's question - it's something in the phrasing and I'm sure the problem is on my end, but I think I mostly get what he's saying.

I won't try to speak for anyone else, but I feel like it's almost as though as soon as this campaign was announced, we had more awful "bad for the gays" stuff than usual - more suicides, a story I posted the other day about a teacher who got canned for Teaching While Gay, etc. For me personally, as much as I applaud the intention behind It Gets Better and certainly have nothing but respect and admiration for everyone who has made a video, but I just think it's hard to keep sending the message of it gets better when we have so many current examples for being for whom it did not get better - or at least, got worse again. Or something.

CATS, I'm still a little foggy on what you mean, but does what I say make any sense with what you asked?

[best12bars]

Posted: 10/13/10 at 7:24am

Are any of them saying "you will face no opposition when you're older?"

I haven't seen that, but, admittedly, I haven't watched a lot of these. Of the few I've seen, they're saying "it gets better," not "it gets perfect."

I can't think of any group of people in the world who face zero opposition. So who is perpetuating the lie? Are there specific videos?

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 10/13/10 at 9:51am

It gets better unless you decide to stay in a small town or become a teacher. Or get a sh*tty college roommate.

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 10/13/10 at 10:37am

My attitude, even in the face of small towns, becoming a teacher and so on is that it CAN get better. IMO, suicide, regardless of the reasons motivating it, can always be handled in a similar way. As low and crappy as and inescapable as things may seem, they can always get better. These kids can get out of these small towns. Teachers can move on to accepting communities. Everything is temporary if you want it to be. If you want it and are willing to work your ass off, you can get out. You may have to walk away from your community, your classmates, your church and even your family, but it can be done and there is a life out there waiting for you. We have to teach these kids that the ones doing the bullying and hating are usually the ones who end up looking back on high school/college as the best years of their lives. The real joy comes later.

I mean, is the answer some sort of rescue program where we take bullied youth into our homes? Maybe some sort of big brother/big sister program? I helped a young girl who was being treated like hell by her family and town to find a nanny position in NY. There are ways to get out.

A dear friend from high school, star of the football team and everyone's friend, took his own life three weeks ago because he got his orders to return to Afganistan for a third time. He couldn't face it again. These kids are facing a daily war, but there is an end in sight. The end of HS or college or a job in another city could be an easy answer. Building up their self esteem and showing them how much there is to look forward to can give the tools to survive now. The darkest day of my life was when I realized that I couldn't find a single thing to look forward to. I thank God every day that I somehow got through that period. My life is full of love and joy now.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 10/13/10 at 10:38am

You should make a video. I'm not being snarky. You should really make a video with exactly what you just wrote.

[Q]

Posted: 10/13/10 at 10:43am

I think the 'it gets better' idea has validity. Perhaps the focus needs to be less on it getting better because of where you go, but rather on the fact that you CAN go. It's feeling trapped by the limited options of childhood - and dependency - that I think is the real issue.

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 10/13/10 at 10:45am

I wish I could. Our new house doesn't have Internet yet. It should be working by the weekend. Another friend suggested we make one and my wife and I have talked about it. I think the stories like ours and most of the gay people I know are the ones kids need to hear. My life would be considered boring by many, but it's perfect forbus. :)