Let's fire some gays!- Page 3

[touchmeinthemorning]

Posted: 9/23/04 at 5:15pm

I think that last post made me a Broadway star. lol

Posted: 9/23/04 at 5:15pm

Bobby - enough to go to prison? I'm not trying to put you on the spot, but that is what's at stake here - being willing to 'just say no' and stick with it.

[Matt_G]

Posted: 9/23/04 at 5:20pm

DGrant, that reminds me of a quote from the movie THE CONTENDER with Joan Allen.

"Principles only mean something if you stick by them when they are inconvenient"

That line always stuck with me.

[robbiej]

Posted: 9/23/04 at 5:21pm

I was thinking of that, D.

The only way I'd be willing to do it is if every self-identified gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgendered individual was willing to do it as well.

It needs to be a massive disruption. Not just some schmuck who's going to rot in prison.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 9/23/04 at 5:21pm

So everything we work for is slowly being taken away and we should just give them hugs and write letters? I don't think so. Removal of equal protection in this arena is not a far step of removal of equal protection under other laws such as hate crimes. I simply cannot accept peaceful demostrations as an appropriate response to a majority group that is slowly deciding we are not US citizens and deserve no rights or protections.

"Those peace rally's may not have stopped the bombing, but they will help in the future. Just watch."

I watched the bombing. I watched the worldwide reaction. I am now watching the terrorism increase. The peace rallies had no effect then, and they have already been mostly forgotten. The US government knows full well that these demostrations can be completely ignored with no lasting effects. They have been doing it for decades.

[insomniak]

Posted: 9/23/04 at 5:22pm

That article makes me want to... I can't even type it, for my own protection. Why the hell would they do that?! WHY would anyone want to screw a group of people over like that for no reason other than what's in their DNA? How can they? It's complete and total discrimination and a horrible case of homophobia. And they call us a free country. There is no way they should be able to do that. I'm moving to Canada.

[touchmeinthemorning]

Posted: 9/23/04 at 5:22pm

I vote that we petition Oprah to call for all glbtq to stop paying taxes.

Posted: 9/23/04 at 5:24pm

Why Oprah?

[Bobby457]

Posted: 9/23/04 at 5:24pm

Yes DG- I would do it.....But ALL of us would have to do it. There would be no point if only a few did it. It wouldnt have that kind of impact

[Matt_G]

Posted: 9/23/04 at 5:26pm

Because Oprah is the one that really runs this country. Anyone who doesn't realize that by now has been asleep for the past decade.

[robbiej]

Posted: 9/23/04 at 5:27pm

HUGS NOT DRUGS!!!

Cause that worked. I say hugs ON drugs! But that's neither here nor there.

The model of Rosa Parks and Ghandi is helpful, but not in terms of 'Love your neighbor'. They didn't necessarily love their neighbors. They were sick and tired of second-class citizenship. Eventually, the process turned to boycotts which affected people in their pocketbooks. Also, the images of people being brutalized by the government also helped their causes.

[touchmeinthemorning]

Posted: 9/23/04 at 5:27pm

"I watched the bombing. I watched the worldwide reaction. I am now watching the terrorism increase"

See what violence breeds? More violence.

You know what peace breeds? More peace.

Oprah...cause she's got a VERY large audience...it'd get the needed word out.

Posted: 9/23/04 at 5:29pm

I'm not in disagreeance on Oprah at all - I just wish an openly gay person would step up and get involved.

[insomniak]

Posted: 9/23/04 at 5:30pm

That is a good idea. Get it on Oprah and she'll make people empathize and listen. Is there a way someone could suggest it? A public email address to the producers of her show?

[robbiej]

Posted: 9/23/04 at 5:31pm

I'll take care of it.

I'll keep you posted.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 9/23/04 at 5:32pm

"I understand that people are tired of fighting, but...the trick to any political movement is perspective. As short ago as 10 years, less than 10% of Americans believed in gay marriage. Now, we're up to almost half. I'd call that rapid change...especially when compared to other movements."

Except that the movement actually began at Stonewall 35 years ago. The point is, we're at almost half and that can quickly slide back down to less than 10% if those in power (the over-50% population) who can change policy demonstrate to the public that we do not have to be accepted, tolerated, or treated as US citizens. When they openly condone and encourage acts of bigotry. These are educated individuals who have chosen a path of prejudism and hatred. Unlike us, it is not genetic. It is their choice. And they are the ones who are influencing these policies to overturn our rights and protections. How far does it have to go before we really let loose?

[touchmeinthemorning]

Posted: 9/23/04 at 5:35pm

robbie,

the causality in your analysis of ghandhi and rosa parks are really off. it is VERY difficult (I would say impossible) to link any movement to one cause. It is a myriad of causes for a myriad of effects. However, what seems to be proven by the global scheme of history is that violence engenders hatred, and hatred causes violence. Someone has to step up and stop hating, and be kind. And sit in their proverbial bus seat.

[Matt_G]

Posted: 9/23/04 at 5:37pm

So in a sense, you could say the Mayor of San Francisco "Sat on his proverbial bus seat" when he issued marriage certificates that were later invalidated?

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 9/23/04 at 5:39pm

mmhmm....

and who wouldn't mind taking a ride with Mr. Newsom?

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 9/23/04 at 5:39pm

from a war mongering imperialist yankee.

i know nobody's really said it yet, but there's an underpinning that runs through some of posts which i thought i might speak about. something to keep in mind is the fact that the when people sit down and start to plan violence in a civil society where people have the recourse of the courts and the legal system that it almost always backfires on whatever group chooses that path. i mean recent american history alone should prove that: sds, the weathermen, faln. once they chose violence, their violence became the story, not their issue. eventually they are remembered not for why they fought, but for what they did.

i just think that while violence can be the answer when changing a stalinist regime, it's not the answer when trying to achieve rights within a democracy. not when there are other avenues available. especially when the group in question is already a fractured minority

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 9/23/04 at 5:47pm

"You know what peace breeds? More peace."

No, in the case of Iraq, it bred nothing. Peace was ignored. To say that violence breeds violence really doesn't mean anything other than an opposing force will defend itself when its life is at stake. So if an angry mob comes to hang me from a tree, I should hold their hand and pray for peace. Hope someone organizes a protest after I'm dead? If things keep sliding backwards, we're headed back on that path. Sorry, but if you want peaceful advances for equal rights, then you have a seriously long wait. Probably after your lifetime because they have obviously stopped working. I'm not talking about bombing offices and killing people. I'm talking about noisy riots that make us heard. Those marches on Washington and bike rides and marathon runs are just not rocking the nation. Queer Eye is cute and funny and straight guys get loads of free stuff, but it is not changing the minds of anyone who thinks that they can steamroll us and get away with it. Because they are getting away with it. THAT is what they remember.

Posted: 9/23/04 at 5:48pm

Thank you, papa.

[Matt_G]

Posted: 9/23/04 at 5:50pm

Yes, interesting to hear someone who has threatened me physically talk out against violence.

[robbiej]

Posted: 9/23/04 at 5:51pm

So here's what I wrote to Oprah:

Dear Ms. Winfrey:

My name is Rob Maitner. I’m a 30-year-old struggling actor living in New York City (Queens, to be exact). I’m writing not to ask for a job or even to ask for a chance to pimp my talent on your show. No, I’m writing because I’m thinking about not paying my taxes this year. No. I’m not Amish. I’m gay. Quite honestly, I’m a little sick and tired of being treated like a second-class citizen. Did you know that in 36 states it is legal to be fired for being gay? I’m sure you are aware that, when I die, my partner, the beautiful and talented David *******, will not be eligible to my Social Security benefits. And, of course, the current administration is pushing for discrimination to be written our Constitution.

Since I’m not a full citizen of the United States and do not receive equal protection under the law, I’m wondering why I pay taxes. And I’m not the only one. Several friends of mine feel the same way. Why finance a government in which we cannot fully participate? So we’re trying to get the word out that gay and lesbian Americans should not pay taxes this year. We’d love to find a rather large soapbox from which to get our message out, and, let’s face it, your show is it.

If you would like to discuss this issue further, please feel free to email me at ***********.

Best regards and I’ve loved your show for years,

Rob Maitner

[Matt_G]

Posted: 9/23/04 at 5:53pm

Excellent. Where did you send it? I think I'll send a letter of my own.

And maybe ask for a car while I'm at it. What the hell.