Military Strike on Syria?- Page 2

[javero]

Posted: 8/30/13 at 10:15am

"When you look at his record he has no problem using force."

Sometimes force must be met with counter-force of equal measure.

Look, I want to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. There has to be some actionable intelligence, classified or otherwise, that links Bashar Assad's regime to the use of chemical weapons on innocent civilians. AND that intelligence had better convince members of Congress in the privy council of an imminent threat to the lives of Americans either in Syria or state-side. OTHERWISE, a call for articles of impeachment would not be out of order imho.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 8/30/13 at 10:23am

"Sometimes force must be met with counter-force of equal measure."

Sometimes. I think Obama has gone beyond what is necessary or constitutional. I find his drone policy worse that Bush. He's certainly gone beyond what he said as a candidate.

"Look, I want to give the guy the benefit of the doubt."

I wanted to too. And I did for four years. But between Drones, intimidation of the press, the NSA, not closing Guantanamo, and his awful education policies I'm done giving him the benefit of the doubt.

[suestorm]

Posted: 8/30/13 at 10:30am

Im shocked by all this Obama criticism.

i guess i assumed most people here were waterboarded with Kool-Aid. I am corrected.

The Emperors clothes are off

[Wynbish]

Posted: 8/30/13 at 10:37am

This whole ordeal is just upsetting, but I, like javero, give him the benefit of the doubt. I assume there is information I do not know and would not understand.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/30/13 at 10:40am

50 congressional democrats urged him to slow this process down. More need to sign on. Those 50 show that the democrats don't march in, what's the term - unison? - to whatever the president says. That gives me some meager hope. However, when Obama is acting like his hand is being forced, it really is that W-like. The problem is men being men. They feel they have to -- to coin a phrase -- stand their ground and it's ridiculous.

ETA "There has to be some actionable intelligence, classified or otherwise, that links Bashar."

I've heard it all, a hundred times, I've heard it all before.

Given that Obama's response to the NSA revelations was essentially that what the US does isn't half as bad as what other countries that spy on its citizens do, I would say he doesn't deserve benefit, he just deserves doubt.

Updated On: 8/30/13 at 10:40 AM

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 8/30/13 at 10:43am

I find the drone missiles unforgivable. Syria, I am undecided. My wife is very much in support of the EU jumping in. I am honestly not at all up on what exactly has been going on. If they are talking about it on Teletubbies or an article that can be comprehended in 5 minutes or less, it's not in my brain.

[javero]

Posted: 8/30/13 at 10:44am

Erik,

A colleague of mine is fond of saying that Obama's biggest defect is that he's in the wrong party. Hyberpole aside, I think there's something to papa's comparison of Nixon and Obama. Nixon battled an inferiority complex and I still sense that Obama feels overshadowed by Bill Clinton.

Several years ago I suggested on here that there was a Kennedy-Clinton family feud which Obama cleverly exploited for political gain. With Ted Kennedy gone and the Clintons forever a fixture in Democratic political circles, perhaps that explains why most insiders consider his inner circle to be one of the most insular in recent memory. Folks here inside the Beltway refer to his AG Eric Holder and him as the new Bobby and Jack which I'm told never sit well with Janet Napolitano for a number of reasons.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 8/30/13 at 10:44am

as much as part of me would love to revel in the criticism of obama, the fact is that the country had no real choice in 2008 thanks to the gop's blind insistence upon nominating an idiot.

[tazber]

Posted: 8/30/13 at 10:47am

I keep hearing the line that if we don't act it will embolden our enemies.

I say wrong. Attacking all the time and not accomplishing the goal (which is almost surely what would happen here) makes you look foolish. That emboldens one's enemies.

Rare, decisive, and unexpected strikes are what maintain your reputation.

[Wynbish]

Posted: 8/30/13 at 10:47am

Why revel in criticism anyway? We're all in the same boat. He's President of all of us. "I told you so" or "Yay! People are upset like me!" just seem, to me, to be odd reactions to this problem.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 8/30/13 at 10:50am

I'm not reveling in it. It's depressing. Obama has probably been the biggest disillusionment I've had in politics. Maybe the biggest disillusionment I've had in my adult life. My reaction to it has been to stop supporting our broken two party system.

[suestorm]

Posted: 8/30/13 at 10:51am

I think Obamas problem is that he still thinks hes a Professor, and he doesnt live in the real world. at least before he was given the keys to the oval office. once he got there he saw that the world wasnt a textbook, that there is real evil in the world and saw that what he criticized ex presidents on both sides for actually needed to be done. thats why the drones, gitmo, nsa, spying etc continued despite campaigning against them

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/30/13 at 10:52am

But I remember you saying at the time papa you had no problem with Sarah Palin being a heartbeat away from the presidency. That might have been when you were still thinking "sexy librarian" before the Couric interview revealed she didn't know that a libary is a real thing.

Updated On: 8/30/13 at 10:52 AM

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 8/30/13 at 10:53am

"My reaction to it has been to stop supporting our broken two party system."

Same here. YES to that.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 8/30/13 at 10:53am

well, because i am nothing if not venal and petty, wynbish! and after 8 years of listening to people bitch and demand impeachments over the same things that are accepted widely today, it's a bit understandable i think to revel a little bit.

the data upon which they are basing their conclusions should be revealed today. supposedly it's intercepts of low-level syrian soldiers talking about the strikes. i am very keen to see it.

the problem is that it most likely does not implicate the syrian leadership in any way, nor does it conclusively demonstrate that it was, in fact, the syrian military.

i have even read reports that kerry was off script when he made his allegations that it was undeniably the assad gov't that launched the attacks and that boxed obama in a bit.

[Wynbish]

Posted: 8/30/13 at 10:54am

The two party system definitely doesn't benefit America all the time.

I hate having to vote while thinking "well, it's better than..." or "lesser of two evils, right?".

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 8/30/13 at 10:55am

But Wynbish...you don't HAVE to vote like that. There are other choices!

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/30/13 at 10:56am

But that only ends up benefitting the minority party of voter suppression.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 8/30/13 at 10:57am

I think voting for the lesser of two evils benefits no one.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 8/30/13 at 10:58am

I am not sure what the right answer is to this mess.

But I do think we need more information. It is not clear to me who is responsible for the use of the weapons, and until that is resolved, no military action should be taken.

And, the sad thing is, I am not sure removing Assad (if that is even possible) will make things any better for the people of Syria.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 8/30/13 at 10:59am

i said that given the choice between biden and palin i would choose palin. i still stick by that.

to quote bill haydon from le carre's classic "tinker, tailor, soldier, spy", "it weas an aesthetic choice as much as moral."

[suestorm]

Posted: 8/30/13 at 10:59am

OMG another Sarah Palin Namo reference. two elections later. YIKES

[Wynbish]

Posted: 8/30/13 at 11:00am

Erik, I understand that. I was one of the Athenians who wrote in "Charles Darwin" instead of voting for the unopposed Paul Broun.

For this particular Presidential election, I had told myself that a vote for a candidate other than Obama and Romney was not helping Romney lose, and I just really needed Romney to lose. Granted, I live in Georgia, which, apart from Athens, is a red state through and through. As long as the electoral college still decides, my liberal vote means nil in this state.



Updated On: 8/30/13 at 11:00 AM

[javero]

Posted: 8/30/13 at 11:07am

I'm not reveling in it either. I disclosed sometime ago that I'm a card-carrying Libertarian and certainly not beholden to the two big nation parties. Obama's presidency has been historical, bold in some instances, and arguably error-prone in others.

I think his biggest flaw, as is Hillary Clinton's, is the combination of not having governed at the state level and the absence of a military service record. I've been consistent through the years in my preference for former state governors with at least national guard service occupying the White House. Legislating and managing the executive functions of a government are different tasks. And those who've actually witnessed the theater of war are less inclined to feel the need to flex their military muscles internationally, notwithstanding McCain.

I don't regret my decision to vote for Obama twice though. Bomb-Bomb-Bomb-McCain and the Nincompoop from Wasilla just were not a viable option in 2008 and that GOP class of 2012 simply provided comic relief.

Updated On: 8/30/13 at 11:07 AM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/30/13 at 11:10am

"I'm a card-carrying Libertarian"

A Randian?