Obama on Small Town Life- Page 4

[Kass983]

Posted: 4/13/08 at 3:34pm

Obama supporter here. Whole issue is yet another divisive tool to distract us. I posted this site in it's own thread but it will get seen more here. Hope you don't mind.
Bittervoters.org

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 4/13/08 at 3:39pm

this is not what obama was saying at all, and it just reminds me how much i hate clinton for spinning this way beyond anything intelligible.

so laurenb is hillary?

i do so love watching people get turned off by hil for campaigning. they're running for the effin' presidency. do you really think the general election is going to be some peaceful kumbaya-fest? it's gonna make this primary look like a grade school class president race. please nominate the person least likely able to withstand such a campaign and then make excuses about how it's not a fair race.

1972, baby.

all. over. again.

[tazber]

Posted: 4/13/08 at 3:41pm

Poor Hillary. To be cursed with a pair of tits.

[DG]

Posted: 4/13/08 at 3:42pm

"1972, baby.

all. over. again."

Well now, isn't that a charming thought - or not. On a lot of levels.

[StickToPriest]

Posted: 4/13/08 at 3:43pm

Taz: It has nothing to do with her being female. Look up my posts from around the New Hampshire primary and the media spinning her "crying" episode...I was defending her left and right. But, as time has gone on, I've been more drawn to Obama.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 4/13/08 at 3:47pm

Yeah, being female has NOTHING to do with this. I am just tired of her whining every two seconds and having to resort to "but he said . . ." tactics to win the presidency. It's becoming less of what she can do to make this country better and more of schoolyard-type banter. Again, I used to be FOR her but not anymore.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 4/13/08 at 3:49pm

only in the results of the race, dg. take a breath.

johnny mac will go into the office and tell everybody to go eff themselves and govern as he sees fit. the right will have a cow, but the left will still be in a collective state of shock if it hasn't completely splintered into separate parties: the democrats and the national progressives (i.e. tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorists and the co-dependent 12 steppers who love them). he'll stroke out 3 years in and his veep - probably charlie crist from fl unless the rumors of his predilection for man-flesh are true - will gallop to re-election over the ruins of what was the left.

[tazber]

Posted: 4/13/08 at 3:53pm

I just see no difference in the way she's campaigning and the way he is. I'm disgusted with both of them.
They are equally whiny, dishonest, underhanded, and desperate.

In other words, politicians.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 4/13/08 at 3:58pm

no, taz, no. she's the epitome of all evil and he is sweetness and light personified. you'll understand this after he has "fixed" your soul and the lovely mishy bamster has set about curing this mean-spirited and rotten nation by taking a piece of the pie from one set of people and giving it to another. nothing like a little redistribution of wealth to heal what ails the country and bring it together, huh?

Updated On: 4/13/08 at 03:58 PM

[LaurenB]

Posted: 4/13/08 at 4:19pm

Stick: "When times are hard, you turn to what gives you comfort and strength to make it through. That is the point he was making."

But that is not what he said. You said it more eloquently, and had he said that, we would not be having this discussion.
Obama: "It's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or anti-pathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."



Stick: "And any other meaning someone gets out of it, having read it in context, is simply a failure of reading comprehension."

Sorry, but we will have to agree to disagree. I read the whole quote in context, and found that what Obama said was clumsy. I am not part of that demographic that he was describing, and I was taken aback.



Papa: "so laurenb is hillary?"

I don't know whether to laugh or to cry. I know:
*loud cackle*

LOL.

[StickToPriest]

Posted: 4/13/08 at 4:21pm

I will agree he could have said it better, but I still don't see how someone can take it as an attack on them. It was a showing of, and a cry for, empathy for them.

[javero]

Posted: 4/13/08 at 4:33pm

The most problematic aspect of his characterization of the faithful and gun-toters in question was use of the word "they".

No national politician can take swipes at God, Country and the 2nd Amendment, especially a Democrat. We're already going up against the Party of God and painted by the right-wing as a group of aberrants. Some truths are best left unspoken.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 4/13/08 at 5:37pm

"I will agree he could have said it better, but I still don't see how someone can take it as an attack on them. It was a showing of, and a cry for, empathy for them."

First of all, it comes across as elitist. It was said at a fund raiser on the West Coast, not to the people who were in PA. One of the reasons John Kerry lost was because he came across as being elitist.

Second, telling someone that they are "clinging to religion" is not showing empathy. It is showing antipathy toward their religion. He is saying that if they are "bitter" they shouldn't cling to religion. If he had made the same comments about Muslims, he would have had his head blown off.

Third, it's a gross generalization of a segment of the US population which he wants to vote for him. You don't get votes by telling people they are bitter.

This shows that he is a divider not a uniter.

Updated On: 4/13/08 at 05:37 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 4/13/08 at 5:37pm

It never ceases to amaze me that Obama supporters say only Hillary has been campaigning negatively. Do you guys just turn a blind eye to all Obama's attacks on her? Let alone your own!

And spider--how is constantly calling her a "bitch" any kind of new politics?

Priest--I think you honestly believe that it was a "showing of, and a cry for, empathy"--but do you not realize that it displayed an inappropriate condescension? People don't "cling" to religion because they're bitter. How can that possibly be construed as anything but an intellectualized put-down?

Updated On: 4/13/08 at 05:37 PM

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 4/13/08 at 5:43pm

I actually only called her a bitch once, so that is not constant.

I agree that Obama can be "bitchy" (there ya go, Joey) too and use the same school yard tactics, but it doesn't seem like that is his MAIN thing in running.

[tazber]

Posted: 4/13/08 at 5:54pm

It only takes one time DJ. As soon as you called her a bitch it became about her being a woman, whether you wish to acknowledge it or not.

It would be like calling Obama a "darkie", but claiming it's not really about race.

Whether consciously or sub-consciously, when a woman does the same thing male politicians do every day it is judged more harshly.

As I always say, neither one of them are pure, and yet Hillary is demonized far more than Obama.

[StageManager2]

Posted: 4/13/08 at 5:55pm

How annoying that they have to fight elections for their cause
The inconvenience -- having to get a majority
If normal methods of persuasion fail to win them applause
There are other ways of establishing authority

[Kass983]

Posted: 4/13/08 at 5:56pm

He didn't say that they cling to those things because they are bitter; he said that they turn to issues like those because they are familiar and they feel they have at least some control over them. Such as getting behind or against gun control, or religion tinted issues such as gay marriage, abortion, prayer in school, etc. Those are issues that mean something to people of course, but they do not and cannot address the pressing issues of the economy, jobs, education, the war - the issues that people feel bitter about because no one seems willing to actually address and do something about. So we/they focus on and "cling" to the small time yet familiar, divisive issues that keep us polarized and never lead to solutions. He may not have said it brilliantly, but at least he said it...and history bears it out.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 4/13/08 at 6:04pm

"he said that they turn to issues like those because they are familiar and they feel they have at least some control over them."

And he is saying this to a West Coast audience for what reason? Why is he bashing small town America on the West Coast?

You will notice that he says "they" and not "we".

Updated On: 4/13/08 at 06:04 PM

[Kass983]

Posted: 4/13/08 at 6:07pm

He was asked a question by that audience about PA. I put "we" in there because though I don't live in PA, I have seen these sentiments in the elders around me and as I grow older, I feel them myself.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 4/13/08 at 6:09pm

Well, it could be taken that way but I think McCain is a bitch too and he is a male. Like I said, I could care less if she is a woman. I could care less if a cross-eyed, purple people eater was running for the Presidency. I just don't like her anymore and that is just me. It's great that people like her . . . stick to your beliefs and opinion . . . and I will stick to mine.

[tazber]

Posted: 4/13/08 at 6:09pm

the bottom line is:
what he said and what people will hear are not the same thing.

regardless of what he may or may not have meant, he spoke poorly and people are upset.

Updated On: 4/13/08 at 06:09 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 4/13/08 at 6:10pm

Kass--this morning on the Meet the Press Bob Shrum said "Obama's not running for sociologist in chief, he's running for president."

It doesn't matter if what he said was right or wrong. Being right on topics of race and class is the job of a political scientist, a college professor, a blogger, or the most "intellectual" guest at a dinner party.

But Obama is a politician. His job during the campaign is to defeat the Republican opponents and GET ELECTED so that his job during his term can be to giovern well.

Obama already has trouble getting white working class voters to vote for him. This was stupid thing to do.

The fact that he's right or wrong is beside the point.

This is the real world. I have been worried for a long time that Obama and his supporters were not yet ready for the rough and tumble of the campaign.

The Republican 527s are waiting to destroy him. If he can't turn this around, he doesn't deserve to be the Democratic candidate.

And if his supporters walk away because this "turns them off," they would have walked away when those 527s start fighting dirty anyway.

If you still think he's the best candidate, keep fighting--there are 10 primaries and a convention to go.

If not, join me: I think Clinton/Obama is an unbeatable ticket.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 4/13/08 at 6:11pm

"regardless of what he may or may not have meant, he spoke poorly and people are upset."


And many more are applauding him.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 4/13/08 at 6:12pm

i'm just glad we have people here to explain to us ig'nant fo'k what that sweet talking fella really means ever' time he goes 'n insults us. thank you lawdy for givin' bammy's 'splainers and he'p them keep on 'splainin' what he "really" means ever' time he goes talkin'.