Patriotism: Would you die for your country?- Page 4

[Pippin]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 2:31pm

"How so? Do you seriously think that enough people who thought Bush was a bad president during his first term voted to get him elected to a second term?"

yes. they are known as the religious right who voted for him because he was a Christian, and that was thier only criteria. I come from a family of 'em who all have generic thank you letters from George and Laura on their fridge right now.

[misschung]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 2:49pm

There definitely are. And let's not forget those who voted for him in '04 because they wanted him to "finish what he started" in the Middle East. And when someone decides to bomb Indian Point which is less than 20 miles from my house, I'll have them to thank.

just kidding

since that will help insure a change come the election

Well...he can't be elected a third time, so frankly any change is an improvement at this point.

Updated On: 11/6/07 at 02:49 PM

[Elphaba]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 7:12pm

way too many people flapping their gums here who do not realize in many countries some of what you have said on the board would have already convicted you and sometimes your family of treason and would have been your death sentence.

The beauty of this country is you CAN say all of that. So remember that when saying you would not die for your country what exactly that means.

Dying for your country doesn't mean dying for Bush, et al.....it means dying so that our freedoms are preserved as MANY died so that you could say what you want, be who you are, and live (for the most part) how you want.

Do not insult the memories of those who made that so.

Updated On: 11/6/07 at 07:12 PM

[misschung]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 7:21pm

We're all expressing our opinions here, which is completely within our right of freedom of speech. You can't hold those who have died to preserve that right up on a pedestal, and in the next breath tell us not to insult their memory. That goes against freedom of speech, and is totally counter-intuitive. You have the right to elaborate on your opinions, and so should everyone else.

I would die for my country, but I can't think of a single opportunity that would afford me that privilege as you describe it. Certainly not in war - this one or any others that I can think of.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 7:28pm

"You can't hold those who have died to preserve that right up on a pedestal, and in the next breath tell us not to insult their memory."

of course I can, because Im understand their sacrifice.

As to "no war is just", which is the jist of the rest of your post.....one only needs to look back to the early 1940's to see that that statement is a crock.

Or would you perhaps have us as part of a Nazi superpower? Or perhaps we should have been happy being a British colony.....and be bowing to the Queen now, or better yet....TWO Americas on this continent....one with slavery in this century.
No war is just....yeah, right.

Updated On: 11/6/07 at 07:28 PM

[misschung]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 7:35pm

What I meant by the statement you quoted (which is unclear, I apologize) is that it seems paradoxical to respect those who died fighting for a right like freedom of speech, and to then to tell us, in so many words, not to exercise our own freedom of speech by insulting their memories.

I don't think anyone was insulting those who gave their lives for such a cause, but if we were, we have the right to do so, even if you disagree.

Could we exist without war? So far, history shows we can't. I'm not about to propose a master plan for existence without war. But dying in a war isn't exactly the way I'd like to die for my country.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 7:37pm

I think the whole discussion is clouded by the view of the war in Iraq.

I would die to defend this country, and while there are other places that may afford similar protections of speech, this is my home, and if attacked, I would defend it, with my life if necessary.

Bush's foreign policy, and his miserable, failed Administration have done much to distort and damage what a true patriot looks like.

In my mind, patriotism is not blindly following the lead of whoever is in power. But, it is being willing to step up and fight when threatened by a clear and present danger. We were not threatened by Iraq, and thus that war is not a proper reference point for purposes of determining who is and who is not a patriot (at least to me).

[Elphaba]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 7:56pm

bravo youwant, exactly what i was trying to say, but you said it much better

chung, of course living in a free society means the freedom to voice different opinions, and if there are some people out there who want to insult the memories of those who died to allow them to have those freedoms, so be it....but (to me) they would be no better than the dog who bites the hand that feeds him......because that dog does not appreciate things either.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 8:56pm

Elphaba: I would not die for this country.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 9:32pm

I already knew that. To each their own.

[LaurenB]

Posted: 11/7/07 at 8:55am

Elphaba, I want you in my foxhole.

[Pippin]

Posted: 11/7/07 at 2:01pm

I believe that line was one of the last minute cuts during Wicked previews.

Updated On: 11/7/07 at 02:01 PM

[Jonny boy]

Posted: 11/7/07 at 3:59pm

I would NEVER die for this country!!!