Patriotism: Would you die for your country?- Page 3

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 1:13pm

"Booooo, Bush Bad, War Bad, America Bad!" and still enjoy the benefits of living here

So during a Democratic administration you're still happy as a bigoted clam?

We had the opportunity to change the course of this war in 2004 and Americans failed to do that. Mostly because they were so busy voting against gays and lesbians.

Yeah, and if those are the people that make up "my" country, I can't fathom why I should even be expected to want to die for them.

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 1:16pm

If it weren't for criticism of the government and objection to the current state of things, this country would never have been founded.

Crying "Boooo, bad this and bad that" is HEALTHY and POSITIVE.

You can't heal a relationship if the problems are not expressed and addressed.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 1:29pm

"But you're right, you do have the freedom to say all that and more. Which is why I personally DO love America."

But again, you could live in Norway or Spain or Canada or Japan or dozens of other countries, criticize the government all you wanted without fear of retribution and actually be able to get a world class education for free (instead of the second rate one, by world standards, most kids get here) and if, god forbid, you got very sick and needed medical care that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, you wouldn't have to sell your house and declare bankruptcy as a result. You also wouldn't have a government spending trillions on ill-advised military campaigns that makes you resented throughout the world and the enemy of millions and instead spent its tax income on improving the quality of life of its citizens.

Let me flip the question: in what specific ways is better to live in America if you earn less than, say $100,000/year (not that that's rich, by any means, anywhere in this country) than it would be if you made a comparable income in, say, France or the UK?

Updated On: 11/6/07 at 01:29 PM

[artscallion]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 1:36pm

"I just get baffled at the people who constanty whine, "Booooo, Bush Bad, War Bad, America Bad!" and still enjoy the benefits of living here"

Booing things we think should be changed is one of the benefits of living here. What exactly is it you're willing to die for? The right to shut up and put up with whatever the government does?

And somehow equating the right to complain with the right to enjoy the benefits of living here is illogical and bizarre. Do you suggest that only the quiet and compliant get to enjoy the benefits of living here? So if I join an anti-war march, I should balance that out by giving up my right to what? a speedy trial? regular garbage pickup?

[misschung]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 1:37pm

We had the opportunity to change the course of this war in 2004 and Americans failed to do that

Did we? I apparently missed the "do you want to war to continue - check "yes" or "no" memo.

[Pippin]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 1:39pm

well, it is not that black and white, chung, but the course of the war may have been changed depending on the outcome of who our leader would be right now. But we'll never know.

[misschung]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 1:42pm

Don't look at me, I didn't vote for him

[Pippin]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 1:45pm

ditto, and I think that entitles us to vocalise our feelings toward this administration and the state that this country is in as much as we want. The people that did vote for Bush, and have since jumped on the anti-Bush bandwagon don't have a leg to stand on, and have no right at all to complain about him.

[Jane2]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 1:47pm

"the people that did vote for Bush, and have since jumped on the anti-Bush bandwagon don't have a leg to stand on, and have no right at all to complain about him."

Oh, now, I didn't vote for Bush, but that statement is just wrong on all counts.

[Pippin]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 1:50pm

I really don't think so. if it was his first election, and people had no idea what they would be getting into, then the statement would be wrong. But these people voted for him after 4 years of knowing how this administration acts and behaves, and in wartime, no less. that is why they shouldn't be able to say anything. they voted to keep him in office after his first 4 years of irresponsibility.

[artscallion]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 1:50pm

Ohhhh, so that's how the holocaust happened. Once Hitler turned stupid, the folks who used to support him were obliged to shut up and ignore the genocide.

[Calvin]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 1:52pm

A side note: My parents caught the "Avenue Q" tour in Houston the other night. I asked my mother if the audience booed the Bush jab at the end. She said they actually cheered it.

In Texas.

I guess they all hate America, too.

[artscallion]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 1:53pm

It shouldn't matter how long it takes someone to wake up. Once they do, they should still be able to stand up and say, "Hey! Cut that out!"

[Pippin]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 1:57pm

and that is the beauty of America, although it makes them all hypocrites.

[Jane2]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 1:58pm

thank you Artscallion. I'm still shaking my head in wonder at Pippin's logic.

[robbiej]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 2:02pm

Though I think, of course, people have the right to change their feelings regarding the odious clan in the Whitehouse, I reserve the right to think, 'You F*CKing idiots, it took you THIS LONG??? Drop dead, Assholes!'

[Pippin]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 2:02pm

it just angers me that middle america who were so gung ho Bush back in 04 have finally woken up to what the rest of us knew all along: That he was the wrong man for the job. It's great that they now vocalise their opinion, making Bush the most unpopular President in history, but it's very frustrating that they couldn't have woken up 3 years ago and seen past all the anti-gay, anti-abortion, family values crap that Rove pushed on the nation. That's all. I understand how my backward logic sometimes may not make as much sense on a computer screen as it does in my head.

[Jane2]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 2:03pm

You said they have no right, and that is WRONG!

ETA-We should be glad that they have changed their minds, since that will help insure a change come the election.

Updated On: 11/6/07 at 02:03 PM

[robbiej]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 2:05pm

Christ...he's not a lawmaker! I read that as being hyperbole.

And frankly, whenever I hear a convert, I want to say, 'Shut it...it's your fault we have him. Deal with it.'

So I get the 'no right' claim.

[artscallion]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 2:06pm

"and that is the beauty of America, although it makes them all hypocrites."

How so? Do you seriously think that enough people who thought Bush was a bad president during his first term voted to get him elected to a second term? Or is it more likely that there were a lot of people who still thought he was doing a good enough job and only came to believe otherwise later as more things came to light.

What would be the motivation to vote for someone they thought was a bad president and then turn around and complain about him? It doesn't make sense.

[Pippin]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 2:07pm

I certainly hope so, but I feel that they are of the mindset that a republican is a republican is a republican, and that's how they will vote, once again putting partisan feelings before sensibility.

[Jane2]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 2:08pm

"Christ...he's not a lawmaker! I read that as being hyperbole."

I read it as I saw it. As he stated, he wasn't coming across exactly the way he wanted to.

[Pippin]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 2:09pm

"Christ...he's not a lawmaker! I read that as being hyperbole.

And frankly, whenever I hear a convert, I want to say, 'Shut it...it's your fault we have him. Deal with it.'

So I get the 'no right' claim. "



thank you...that's ALL I'm sayin'

Updated On: 11/6/07 at 02:09 PM

[robbiej]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 2:10pm

That's fine...but Pippin has since clarified what he/she meant.

[Jane2]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 2:13pm

OK, I gotta be honest and say that I don't want to get further into an argument here. I hate it.