Prop 8 Has Put Me In A Quandary

[VonTussleGirl]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 8:11pm

I live in an unusually conservative area of Southern California, and the passage of 8 has really thrown a wrench into one of my friendships. See, 80% of my friends are right-wing Christian zealots who were huge supporters of 8 and have made that very vocal. I've always tried to accept their beliefs, partially because of that whole "do unto others as you'd have them do unto you" thing, and also because they really are good people - I just disagree with them on a few fundamental issues.

However, in the past week or so, one of my best friends has started to become more and more intense in her vocalization against gay rights. My boyfriend thinks she's being insufferable, my mom thinks she has every right to do so, and I'm torn between their reactions as to how to react to this. I've built my entire friendship with this girl primarily on the fact that we're polar opposites, yet still enjoy many of the same pastimes/interests (including, of all things, musical theatre). But it's getting to the point where the things that she's saying are just escalating higher and higher. She's saying, in no uncertain terms, that 10% of our population - including my friends and people who I look up to, people who have really influenced my life - should be treated as second-class citizens, and that hurts.

So I'm asking for advice from you guys. I'm sure you've had a friend or two or twenty who have held these kind of beliefs. What did you do? What WOULD you do? Did you stick it out and deal with it and accept their ideology, or does there simply come a time where you have to back away? Because I've been trying to be as accepting as I can with this girl, I really have, but I'm just tired of listening to her use the Bible as an excuse to practice injustice and hate toward a bunch of people who have never done her any harm.

What would you recommend I do? I'm just confused.

Thanks.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 8:16pm

I would put my foot down and say that those comments and/or that issue are not allowed around you. You don't want to hear any of it. You have that right.

[best12bars]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 8:19pm

Ditch the bitch.

She's an insufferable hypocrite. And you deserve better friends. You've outgrown her.

The Golden Rule? She's not living by this fundamental rule even remotely, unless she wants her own right to marry stripped away from her.

THAT would be practicing the Golden Rule.

She has "done unto others" but NOT as she would have them "do unto her."

[Elphie10]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 10:00pm

I wouldn't say ditch her. I'm guessing that you guys are in high school, and high schoolers go through phases quite a bit. This sounds like a phase.

I'm not saying she will change her beliefs, but her obsession with this idea probably will fade.

You shouldn't stop being her friend just because she had different beliefs. It's silly to think that all of your friends are going to be exactly like you. Look, on the idea of homosexuality, we all have different beliefs. I personally side with you, as do many people on this board. But I also am a firm believer that we must constantly challenge our own beliefs. Maybe we are all right about homosexuality- but that doesn't mean that ALL of our personal beliefs are right. It's good to have people call those beliefs into question, and to examine them from every angle.

That said, this is probably a subject which you two will never agree on, and it's probably a subject that should not be broached. I would take a few days away from her, to calm down and separate yourself emotionally from the subject, and then explain to her what you just told us. Tell her calmly, rationally, and firmly that you disagree wholeheartedly, and you are not going to budge. You understand that she's also not going to budge. So it's best if you don't discuss the topic at ALL.

One of my friends is incredibly conservative for most subject (although socially, she is pretty liberal.) We simply have a basic understanding that when it comes to politics, we just don't ever approach the subject. It's not worth it. Both of us are too emotionally attached to our beliefs for that conversation to NOT end hurtfully.

I apologize for the length of this post. But if she's a good friend, I think that you can still be friends and just disagree with her on this matter. I wouldn't tell her to change her beliefs, because you don't want her to ask the same of you. I would just label this topic as "off-limits."

[Elphaba]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 10:02pm

I totally agree with Besty.

That girl is not a friend....she is at best a liability.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 10:05pm

so Elphie10 if the friend hated Jews, or was a member of the Klan, would your same views apply?

No, friends like that are not friends.....you can make allowances for a friend being rude, or cheap, or a lot of things...but never, EVER make allowances for a friend who hates.....

[Calvin]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 10:12pm

Post her email address on here.

We'll talk to her for you.

[geaj]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 10:15pm

A "friend" would not discriminate against you but support you. Say goodbye to her. She is NOT a true friend.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 10:23pm

This is a great discussion and one we def should be having as this issue is bringing it all out into the open.

I agree that a person can not have gay friends and be against their rights. Not a true friend in any case.

But others do see this differently. They somehow can adore a person and disagree with that aspect of them--which is possible when what you are isn't the color of your skin.

And how many of us have relatives that are racist or homophobic or sexist? It's tough.

But we all have to decide where the line is. And sometimes that line is--"we don't talk about this issue" if we want to be a part of each other's life.

I don't disagree with those of you saying to dump her. I just think that's the choice the OP is going to have to wrestle with--where is the line for her? How much is this friendship worth? Is it worth getting them to see the light?

I dunno. It just can be so complex. And painful.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 10:29pm

Ask the IGNORAMUS if she follows these other biblical commands:

Leviticus 11: you must not eat of anything that does not have a split hoof, or anything without fins or scales in the water, or specific kinds of birds

Leviticus 12: women are unclean for seven days following childbirth, and must wait 33 days, unless she has a daughter, then must wait 66 days to be purified from her bleeding and then must bring a sin offering and be cleansed before being allowed to worship.

Leviticus 13: people with skin diseases are unclean

Leviticus 19:19: do not plant your field with two kinds of seed

Leviticus 19:19:: do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material (i.e., cotton-poly or wool-linen blends)

Leviticus 20:10: if a man commits adultery with another man's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

Leviticus 20:27: a man or woman who is a medium or spiritualist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them.

Tell the IGNORAMUS when she follows those laws, she can talk to you about the gays.

Updated On: 11/11/08 at 10:29 PM

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 10:37pm

I would go easy on her. It probably stems from the fact that she suspects her boyfriend is actually a HOMO. Seriously, she is basically telling him, "You had better not be one of THOSE!"

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 10:53pm

I'm confused about the fins and scales business. Can I still get a seaweed wrap at the spa or does Leviticus forbid that?

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 11:07pm

Can we please stop calling her a "bitch"?

Regarding the actual person...VonTussleGirl, as you get older you find that you have less and less time to do the things you really want to do. My time means more to me than anything else. I refuse to waste it on people so bitterly opposed to the things--and people--that matter most to me. Besty said it aptly: you've outgrown her.

It's up to you how you spend your time, but I try to live by the saying, "Show me who your friends are and I'll show you who you are." Surround yourself with people who are positive and that's what you'll be.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 11:27pm

Okay she's not a bitch. How's "biotch"?

Namo--are you eating the seaweed wrap or getting wrapped in it?

MissP--can I call Namo a bitch?

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 11:32pm

You have my permission to call me that as long as each time you do you preface with a disclaimer that you recognize "bitch" is a misogynist construct.

[LePetiteFromage]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 11:37pm

Updated On: 1/10/09 at 11:37 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 11:41pm

Oh, Namo, you are SUCH a [DISCLAIMER: MISOGYNIST CONTRUCT AHEAD] beeyotch.

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 11:41pm

If you're calling someone a "bitch" as an affection term, it's fine.

I just don't like to see when people are upset -- even rightly so -- about being oppressed and disrespected and then use a term that is sexist and offensive as well.

I completely understand how it feels to be discriminated against and where the anger comes from, but I just think ya'll are better than that.

Maybe I'm overly sensitive about it. I'm sorry. I guess I'd rather hear her referred to as "That poor, unfortunate, misguided ignoramus" than "bitch." Of course, that doesn't rhyme with "ditch."

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 11:52pm

I like "ignoramus." I changed it to that.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 11:54pm

We're lucky you didn't use c***y!

[mauriposa]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 11:59pm

My mother's best friend of 30 years is a staunchly conservative Republican. My mother, on the other hand, was born and raised a proud Democrat. Their viewpoints on politics could not be different. Yet, they've remained the best of friends and I even call this woman my "aunt." Their solution to their ideological differences? They simply don't talk about it. They talk about everything else. Just not politics. They value their friendship too much to let their political views get in the way. So, it is quite possible to remain good friends with someone who has different ideas from you, as long as you're both willing to keep your political opinions outside of the relationship.

That said, I couldn't do it. But, then again, I value my liberal ideals more than my mother does hers.

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 11/12/08 at 12:06am

PJ, thank you. IGNORAMUS is so much nicer.

[best12bars]

Posted: 11/12/08 at 12:32am

Since when is being prejudiced against a minority group a "political view?"

We're not talking about gal-pal liberals and conservatives putting differences on income taxes, war, and the economy aside to have a cup of coffee and dish about Dancing With the Stars.

We're talking about bigotry.

That is unacceptable regardless of your "political views."

Bigotry is bigotry. It is neither liberal nor conservative. It's hating your fellow man and working to deny them equal rights.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 11/12/08 at 2:16am

Slap her with an open hand.

[FlyingMonkey1223]

Posted: 11/12/08 at 2:24am

I'd get rid of her quicker then a dirty diaper.