Prop 8 Trial Updates — Page 2

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#26

Prop 8 Trial Update

Posted: 6/11/10 at 9:53am

I'll be more than happy to have my doubt prove to be unfounded.

Right. And like I noted on this very page, we were all told that it was a slam dunk with the voters and look where that got us.

Plus, I would think Oscar Wilde would be pleased that the country he was tried in now allows same sex unions. Maybe if I'm raised from the dead in 115 years I'll be pleased to see marriage equality in the US. Or maybe it will just be the same as it ever was.

Updated On: 6/11/10 at 09:53 AM

#27

Prop 8 Trial Update

Posted: 6/11/10 at 9:57am

Anyone who doesn't have a shred of doubt is crazy or blindly optimistic. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

We all choose how we're going to look to the future. You can look at it with negativity, indifference, optimism, blind hope and countless other emotions.

I'm choosing hope because, for me, it's the only way I can function. It's as simple as that.

Finish each day and be done with it. You have done what you could. Some blunders and absurdities no doubt crept in; forget them as soon as you can. Tomorrow is a new day; begin it well and serenely and with too high a spirit to be enbered with your old nonsense. ~ Emerson

Updated On: 6/11/10 at 09:57 AM

#28

Prop 8 Trial Update

Posted: 6/11/10 at 9:58am

In my mind hope and doubt often go hand-in-hand. They're not either/or propositions.

I hope with all my heart. I doubt with at least some portion of my brain.

#29

Prop 8 Trial Update

Posted: 6/11/10 at 10:01am

I hope about a lot of things. Alas, it's my country that continually lets me down.

#30

Prop 8 Trial Update

Posted: 6/11/10 at 10:11am

No, I wouldn't put you in the category of despairers.

And I wouldn't call my hope "blind."

#31

Prop 8 Trial Update

Posted: 6/11/10 at 10:13am

Just to clarify, I didn't call your hope blind either. At least, I don't think I did.

#32

Prop 8 Trial Update

Posted: 6/11/10 at 10:13am

Who would you consider a despairer?

#33

Prop 8 Trial Update

Posted: 6/11/10 at 10:16am

I wouldn't call your hope blind either, PJ.

Just as I wouldn't call Roscoe's doubt despair.

#34

Prop 8 Trial Update

Posted: 6/11/10 at 10:18am

Or meaningless.

#35

Prop 8 Trial Update

Posted: 6/11/10 at 10:30am

This judge has been pretty thoughtful and even-handed in his management of the case so far. My one worry is that this judge is apparently a gay man, so there were already claims by the hate crowd that he could not be impartial. (which kind of implies that a straight judge could similarly not be impartial). So, perhaps he is trying to make sure he has clear and decisive data for whatever decision his is going to make.

He is also preparing the record for the inevitable appeal that will come regardless of the decision he makes.

ETA: Just changed to Judge - DUH!

I am hoping for good news, but even if this fails, I think California has already moved in the other direction and a ballot measure now would pass recognizing same-sex marriages.

Updated On: 6/11/10 at 10:30 AM

#36

Prop 8 Trial Update

Posted: 6/11/10 at 10:57am

Yeah, I got a really sinking feeling when I first heard he was gay too. The trial couldn't have gone any better and then that news dropped. But, like you said, to say he can't be impartial is to say a straight judge couldn't be either.

He's definitely preparing the most complete record of evidence that he can.

I think there's very little chance that it won't go to the Supreme Court. For me, the biggest questions are how long will it take to get there and what will that decision be? Everything I've read says it'll be a 5-4 decision that could go either way. It's gonna be a bumpy ride.

#37

Prop 8 Trial Update

Posted: 6/11/10 at 11:01am

Going to the Supreme's would beg the question - what happens if we lose?

#38

Prop 8 Trial Update

Posted: 6/11/10 at 11:18am

Some unpleasant and unforeseeable chain of events...all too easy to imagine.

The more empowering question is: What happens if we win?

#39

Prop 8 Trial Update

Posted: 6/11/10 at 11:25am

I'mma marry Brendan Fraser. Whether he wants to or not.

#40

Prop 8 Trial Update

Posted: 6/11/10 at 11:39am

I want to know wants going on with the DOMA trial in Boston. They had one day of testimony in late May and now we haven't heard anything about when it will continue or about a decision.

#41

Prop 8 Trial Update

Posted: 6/11/10 at 11:43am

Whether we win or lose, my question is will Obama even acknowledge it?

#42

Prop 8 Trial Update

Posted: 6/11/10 at 12:26pm

Yes, CA was a shock. It taught us some lessons--one of the biggest being that people shouldn't take elections for granted and get their asses out and vote.

NY handed us another lesson about the cowardice of politicians in a state where the majority wanted marriage equality.

There is always the chance this will not go our way. But my optimism (not blind or crazy) comes from seeing a case that possibly couldn't be handled any better. Matched with the Boston case, the victories for marriage equality around the world, and the slow but growing trend towards public acceptance, I do not waiver in my optimism that we will reach full equality in my lifetime.

johnraymondbarker.com

Updated On: 6/11/10 at 12:26 PM

#43

Prop 8 Trial Update

Posted: 6/11/10 at 12:34pm

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, because this goes beyond the legal education I've received from watching Law & Order, but from this point forward, the evidence and testimony presented here is the foundation for this case as it progresses through the court system, right? From here on, it's this evidence and testimony, argued by lawyers to the US Circuit, and then almost certainly to the SCOTUS. If this is true, I'd say that the testimony and evidence on the record, plus the team of Boies and Olson, would make this very encouraging.

"It does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are 20 gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg." -- Thomas Jefferson

#44

Prop 8 Trial Update

Posted: 6/11/10 at 12:35pm

Jerby, the only way that I would call your optimism blind or crazy is if you said that you weren't even the slightest bit worried and that you thought we had the whole thing, including a Supreme Court win, in the bag.

#45

Prop 8 Trial Update

Posted: 6/11/10 at 12:37pm

It really depends on how the judge rules. If he rules in favor of the plaintiffs, and invalidates Prop 8, then I think he is laying a foundation to justify the ruling and make it more difficult to overturn.

But, with this current SCOTUS, who the hell knows what they would do. The activist Roberts court makes its own rules as it goes.

#46

Prop 8 Trial Update

Posted: 6/11/10 at 12:39pm

Damned activist judges!

#47

Prop 8 Trial Update

Posted: 6/11/10 at 12:53pm

Exactly. They pull crap out of thin air and decide to rule on it.

They have an agenda, and are using the Supreme Court to push it.

#48

Prop 8 Trial Update

Posted: 6/11/10 at 12:57pm

I mentioned it earlier in this thread (or in another thread), but I think it warrants mentioning again: this will almost certainly come down to Justice Kennedy, who wrote the majority opinion is Lawrence v Texas, which overturned Texas' sodomy laws.

"It does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are 20 gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg." -- Thomas Jefferson

#49

Prop 8 Trial Update

Posted: 6/11/10 at 1:12pm

You're right, mb. We have a definite chance, but it's gonna be close.

#50

Prop 8 Trial Update

Posted: 6/15/10 at 9:50am

A federal judge who will decide the constitutionality of California's ban on same-sex marriage wants lawyers during closing arguments Wednesday to discuss the meaning of "choice" in sexual orientation and a possible finding that Proposition 8 attempted to "enforce private morality...

Walker's questions reveal some of the issues still troubling him and suggest that his decision will rely heavily on evidence about the nature of sexual orientation, the effect of Proposition 8, and the similarities and differences between heterosexual and same-sex couples...

Even if a ban on gay marriage has no rational purpose, Walker asked, is it legal if voters truly believed it would prevent harm? He cited a case that said a legislature could enact a law based on a "common-sense" notion that children fare best in homes with a mother and a father.

"Do the voters' honest beliefs in the absence of supporting evidence have any bearing on the constitutionality of Proposition 8?" Walker asked.

He also expressed interest in testimony that suggested women were more flexible in their sexual orientation than men. A survey described during testimony reported that 88% of gay men said they had no choice in their sexual orientation while 68% of lesbians felt that way.

"What are the constitutional consequences if the evidence shows that sexual orientation is immutable for men but not for women?" Walker asked. "Must gay men and lesbians be treated identically under the Equal Protection Clause?"...

Another query revealed possible skepticism about the argument that legalizing gay marriage would reduce discrimination against gays and lesbians. He asked the lawyers for two same-sex couples to cite evidence for that contention.

Turning to the supporters of Proposition 8, Walker asked them how same-sex marriage would have negative social consequences and to describe how it would drastically change marriage as an institution.

"Why is legislating based on moral disapproval of homosexuality not tantamount to discrimination?" Walker asked both sides. "What evidence in the record shows that a belief based in morality cannot also be discriminatory?"

Walker, a Republican appointee with libertarian views, also explored the similarities between marriage and the state's domestic partnership law.

"If, under California law, registered domestic partners are to be treated just like married spouses, what purpose is served by differentiating — in name only — between same-sex and opposite-sex unions?" he asked...

LA Times

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