Remove JewWatch.com from the Google Search Engine!- Page 2
Remove JewWatch.com from the Google Search Engine!
#25meet me at the book burning because that's where this road ends
Posted: 2/17/08 at 7:48pm
i do love it when we talk about this around here and see people who demand freedom of speech and tolerance and acceptance of other viewpoints arguing for oppression and doing their level best to pave the way for totalitarianism.
you might have the best intentions for censoring speech and thought but bear in mind it's a whale of a lot tougher to regain something once it is lost than it is to hold on to simply hold onto it.
bear in mind that the people deciding what is allowed and what is not allowed might not agree with your interpretations. imagine that you afforded this power to government and down the road that power was in the hands of a republican president and a republican congress. i daresay that the same voices arguing for silence now would be the first to protest it's application by those powers.
i might not agree with the sentiments of a group, but unless they are explicitly calling for murder or explicitly inciting violence, the best way to answer lies and hatred is with truth and education.
and remember, i'm the resident fascist.
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blueroses
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/18/04
#26meet me at the book burning because that's where this road ends
Posted: 2/17/08 at 7:54pm
"i might not agree with the sentiments of a group, but unless they are explicitly calling for murder or explicitly inciting violence, the best way to answer lies and hatred is with truth and education. "
Exactly. The best way to counter that kind of hate speech is with MORE speech. It doesn't mean you have to stay silent--challenge them, debate them, tear apart their pernicious, hate-filled garbage with logic and reason!
#27re: Remove JewWatch.com from the Google Search Engine!
Posted: 2/17/08 at 7:55pmThe First Amendment only applies to the government. Google is a corporation. As such, they can, (and should), have standards about what is included in a search. No one is saying these morons don't have the right to say what they want, but the stockholders of Google also have the right to say that their product will not be used as a platform for hate.
#28meet me at the book burning because that's where this road ends
Posted: 2/17/08 at 7:57pm
Google is a business, not the government.
If anti-semitic morons want to set up a Web site, that's their right. If a bunch of Google users want to circulate a position asking Google to remove said site from its search engine, that's their right. And Google can respond however it wants to the petition. As long as the government isn't stepping in and demanding Google do something, the First Amendment is irrelevant.
That being said, there's also a bunch of people out there who would love to see to it that Google no longer allows any porn or gay-friendly sites in its search engine, too.
eta: trinaaron, looks like we were on close to the same wavelength at the same time!
Updated On: 2/17/08 at 07:57 PM
blueroses
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/18/04
#29meet me at the book burning because that's where this road ends
Posted: 2/17/08 at 8:05pm
I guess I didn't think of it like that, Calvin. I can see your point. I wonder why they come up FIRST in the search engine? Do they pay Google for that? I have no idea how that works.
ETA: Sorry...they're not first, but are one of the first. Should have checked before posting!
Updated On: 2/17/08 at 08:05 PM
#30meet me at the book burning because that's where this road ends
Posted: 2/17/08 at 8:11pm
"That being said, there's also a bunch of people out there who would love to see to it that Google no longer allows any porn or gay-friendly sites in its search engine, too."
I think that is exactly the issue with these types of calls for censorship, there are too many people out there who want to censor using their own, ridiculous, standards.
I agree that Google is a private company and that they can make their own decisions on this. Just like with other hateful, or illegal things Google can and should remove the site from its list if they see fit do so. And if the site managers promote illegal behavior (such as violence against people) then they should be turned over to criminal authorities.
Censoring the site completely, as wrong as the site is, is counterproductive.
As has been stated, freedom of speech extends beyond the things we agree with, or even the things that are acceptable or right. Yet, because of the freedom, we can be free to learn and find the things that are right and acceptable, and no one can legally take away that right.
Now, we should loudly and without question denounce the site, and its creators and the views expressed as unacceptable.
#31meet me at the book burning because that's where this road ends
Posted: 2/17/08 at 8:14pm
They come up near the top because of the way Google works, first because of the number of people who click on the link, it automatically bumps popular sites.
Also though, people bump the site internally, and there are ways to cheat the system, that I don't doubt the site creators employed to bump it up.
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#32meet me at the book burning because that's where this road ends
Posted: 2/17/08 at 8:16pm
I would have written something along the lines of what Calvin wrote, only not as well. And he beat me to it.
Having said that, I would be really angry if that link came up when I Googled "Sexy Hairy Jew Dude Watching."
#33meet me at the book burning because that's where this road ends
Posted: 2/17/08 at 8:23pm
I wonder why they come up FIRST in the search engine? Do they pay Google for that? I have no idea how that works.
I'm not 100 percent clear on how it works, but it has something to do with the number of other sites that are linking to that site.
Remember back in the '04 election, after Kerry called the Iraq war a "miserable failure," there was an email circling around telling you to type "miserable failure" into Google, and hit "I'm feeling lucky," and then it would put you right into Bush's biography? That's what they call Google bombing, where there's a concerted effort to link certain words to certain sites.
eta: here's a link from when that happened
Updated On: 2/17/08 at 08:23 PM
Urban
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/27/05
#34meet me at the book burning because that's where this road ends
Posted: 2/17/08 at 8:25pmWhy do half these offensive sites feel the need to ramble on in great big walls of text? If you are going to try to market your evil and offensness, bit sized MTV sized portions for todays youth are needed.
#35meet me at the book burning because that's where this road ends
Posted: 2/17/08 at 8:25pm
"That being said, there's also a bunch of people out there who would love to see to it that Google no longer allows any porn or gay-friendly sites in its search engine, too."
Very true. It is up to Google to decide what is appropriate for them and what is not. It is then up to ME as a consumer to decide if their policy is in sync with my values or not.
#36meet me at the book burning because that's where this road ends
Posted: 2/17/08 at 8:27pm
Exactly, trinaaron. And THAT is free speech. 
#37meet me at the book burning because that's where this road ends
Posted: 2/17/08 at 9:23pm
"Exactly. The best way to counter that kind of hate speech is with MORE speech. It doesn't mean you have to stay silent--challenge them, debate them, tear apart their pernicious, hate-filled garbage with logic and reason!"
That reasoning always sounds good, but in this case I don't buy it. Trying to use logic and reason with sick people who don't know logic and reason doesn't work. They are receiving their education from the people to whom they look up.
#38meet me at the book burning because that's where this road ends
Posted: 2/17/08 at 9:37pm
But what comes of that, if we, from the outside, cut them off, then often they become even more intense with their reactionary rage.
I think it is better when things like this are somewhat out in the open.
The sick and deluded will continue their nonsense, without reason or logic, but rational people can challenge them, and hopefully some have just been duped, and with access to other information can grow and change. I have to believe it will be the case, just as I have to believe that most people who come across that site and others like it are compelled to act against it rather than for it.
#39meet me at the book burning because that's where this road ends
Posted: 2/17/08 at 9:47pm
pengy, I hear you and you're much more positive than I am.
You see, I think that hatred of the kind we speak, is more about issues within those haters than it is about Jews, or whomever they hate. We could educate them about Jews and bigotry till the cows come home, but until they realize they need psychological help, and ask for it, then it's a waste of time trying to reason with them.
They are suffering inside from hurt, fear, pain, neglect, jealousy, oh, it could be a number of things. But they don't know it. They're taking it out on a group of people.
#40meet me at the book burning because that's where this road ends
Posted: 2/17/08 at 9:59pm
I force myself to try to be positive.
I actually have even less faith in humanity than that generally, but I think we have to have some form of hope.
I think that there is some nature of ignorance involved as well, I still believe that many of these people were taught to hate, and I hope it can be "untaught".
#41meet me at the book burning because that's where this road ends
Posted: 2/17/08 at 10:03pmYes, the younger ones are taught to hate. How do we get to them?
#42meet me at the book burning because that's where this road ends
Posted: 2/18/08 at 11:25am
Patronus, as a Jew I am totally offended by the site, but like you I also see it as freedom of speech, whether I like it or not.
#43meet me at the book burning because that's where this road ends
Posted: 2/18/08 at 11:31amBasically I agree-it is freedom of speech. I'm just not that optimistic that anything can turn those haters around.
#44meet me at the book burning because that's where this road ends
Posted: 2/18/08 at 11:34am
"I hope it can be 'untaught'."
Following that train of thought, what about the people that want to unteach us how to be gay? Or any other socially unaccepted behavior?
#45meet me at the book burning because that's where this road ends
Posted: 2/18/08 at 11:35am
There are hundreds of thousands of people who think being gay or gay friendly is sick and deluded.
Double standards help no one.
colleen_lee
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/16/05
#46meet me at the book burning because that's where this road ends
Posted: 2/18/08 at 11:40am
"Following that train of thought, what about the people that want to unteach us how to be gay? Or any other socially unaccepted behavior?"
Well, that would follow the assumption that people are taught to be gay, which I think most of us probably agree is not the case.
Hatred is learned, it's a big difference.
Anyway, I also agree with Jerby, et al. Unfortunately, it's all or nothing. If we want to have the freedom and platforms to voice our beliefs, all others do too no matter how misguided we may think they are.
#47meet me at the book burning because that's where this road ends
Posted: 2/18/08 at 11:45am
""Following that train of thought, what about the people that want to unteach us how to be gay? Or any other socially unaccepted behavior?"
Well, that would follow the assumption that people are taught to be gay, which I think most of us probably agree is not the case.
Hatred is learned, it's a big difference."
I agree, but what's to stop the people in power who think we're taught to be gay? I wouldn't expect the kids who believe this junk to say, "Well, yeah, my pa sat me down on his knee and said, 'Son, hate Jews!'" They probably don't think they were taught anything.
"Double standards help no one."
Amen to that one!
#48meet me at the book burning because that's where this road ends
Posted: 2/18/08 at 11:53am
""Following that train of thought, what about the people that want to unteach us how to be gay? Or any other socially unaccepted behavior?"
Although this thread is about antisemitism, the hatred of gays "Or any other socially unaccepted behavior?" is equally protected under free speech. It sucks, but it's the law.
#49meet me at the book burning because that's where this road ends
Posted: 2/18/08 at 11:57am
"Although this thread is about antisemitism, the hatred of gays "Or any other socially unaccepted behavior?" is equally protected under free speech. It sucks, but it's the law."
So when does it become a hate crime?
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