Save it, don't shave it
Save it, don't shave it
Unknown User
Joined: 12/31/69
#1Save it, don't shave it
Posted: 12/29/11 at 12:26pm
This story makes me cry. Please men, make your 2012 a hairier one.
"Today, she hasn’t come across a single straight guy under 25 who doesn’t trim, shave or wax.
There are many factors driving the trend, but both experts and average Joes agree that pornography officially made manscaping de rigueur. Peter Walters, a 23-year-old from San Francisco, says porn inspired him and his friends to trim their pubic hair as freshmen in high school. “Most of the guys in these videos were completely bald, as were the girls, so we all experimented.”
John Marsh, who owns the company that produces videos for Fratmen and Fratpad, porn sites geared toward a gay audience, says virtually all of the straight men they recruit for their films shave their pubic hair, and they all fall between the ages of 18 and 22."
Manscaping: Not just for porn any more
#2Save it, don't shave it
Posted: 12/29/11 at 2:50pmPersonally, the Mazilian looks creepy to me. I'm not into the pre-pubescent look. A light trim doesn't bother me, but when it becomes a meticulous obsession, I usually find it really silly looking. 90s gay porn is an absolute laugh riot. Remember when everyone had to sport g-string tan lines?
WOSQ
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/18/03
#2Save it, don't shave it
Posted: 12/29/11 at 3:59pm
To me there is little more transgressively sexy than a whole bunch of hair spilling out of jeans, shorts, Speedos, underwear, etc.
I hate that slick, sexless, shaved look.
Too safe and too, too dull.
#3Save it, don't shave it
Posted: 12/29/11 at 6:31pm
It's just a generational thing. I'm 25 and I trim because I think it looks neater and I think it's gross when guys have hair peeking out from their swim trunks or speedos.
My brother told me that some girls won't perform oral sex on a guy if he's not clean shaven so I guess some women are also the cause of the trend with straight men.
#4Save it, don't shave it
Posted: 12/29/11 at 6:42pm
At first the full body wax trend grossed me out. Now, I find there are some on which it works. For the most part, I like moderately hairy men.
Nothing worse the getting a hair stuck in your teeth and not realizing it! I always remember my High School Civics teacher (had her first period) seemed to have a short and curly stuck in her teeth… The snickering that went on that morning!
#5Save it, don't shave it
Posted: 12/29/11 at 6:50pm
“I have guys who come in every four to six weeks just to wax their butt cracks,” says Cande, a laid-back wax esthetician at Strip’s New York City outpost. Most of her male clients are in their late 20s or early 30s, she says, and many claim they were encouraged by their significant others to get the “BSC”— a provocative procedure that involves waxing the “back, sack and crack.
I think I remember that triple rhyme from an early Sondheim lyric.
#6Save it, don't shave it
Posted: 12/29/11 at 8:23pm
I remember when I was 12 or so I already started to get chest hair pretty strongly, which I was really excited by at the time, lol. And then the first (and well pretty much only) girl I dated a couple of years later used to comment on it, not really in a negative way but it weired her out. I quickly realized that she thought all of the smooth guys in underwear ads, etc, were naturally smooth...
By the time I started seeing guys I was very hairy, and very self conscious about it and probably until I was 23 or so I used to shave pretty much clean (though only trimmed "down there"--I have never even slightly got why anyone would want to have no pubes). But I kinda had a turning point where I realized that I was more attracted to hairy guys than not so it was ridiculous to worry about it myself. I still trim I guess my chest and stomach in the Summer if I'm going ot be at the beach a lot, not so much in the winter, and sure it's good to keep neat, but...
I don't tink it is necesarily a generational thing, although I do think the more teens grow up with so much porn exposure--or images of it in general the more they will emulate it. And straight guys in general are far more body conscious even compared to ten years back, let alone 20 (it's good to see that instead of superficial body obsession getting better for women to even out the long held balance it's simply getting worst for men... I mean none of the Hollywood stars up till the 80s would ever go shirtless in a movie now--lack of six packs, hair, etc).
That said the smooth body image thing seems to have come out of gay 80s culture and now moved onto straight culture too. I know more and more guys who like some body hair so maybe in ten years it will move back to straight culture again (I remember a New York Times article ten years back that claimed body hair on men was in again, which made me hapopy, but it proved a bit premature). You DO see some more body hair (trimmed very closely) on malke fashion and runway models though, so the complete smooth looks seems to be out.
(*But come on--I speak from experience that it's never nice to be with a guy who has ass stubble...)
henrikegerman
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/29/05
#7Save it, don't shave it
Posted: 12/30/11 at 8:57am
One of the great ironies is that the smooth male look is sometimes attributed to gay influence. (that's so 80s, no?)
If you spend any time in New York's gay nieghborhoods today (Hell's Kitchen, Chelsea, the Pines, and definitely the Grove, etc) you wlll see that hair is where it's at. And it's been where it's at for a very long time. Thank goodness!
Not that there's anything wrong with what ever anybody wants to do, it's the fascism about it that I can't stand. Although personally, I prefer scruff!
Updated On: 12/30/11 at 08:57 AM
#8Save it, don't shave it
Posted: 12/30/11 at 12:23pmIf the smooth look is attributed to the 80s, it's VERY late 80s. The 90s is when things went over the top with manscaping little shapes mysteriously floating above the jewels, crazy tan lines, and this oddly inhuman polished look. It was the era of the Stepford Gays and suddenly, whatever look appeared in porn out of West Hollywood was THE gay fashion trend. The internet just sped the process up even more rapidly adding all sorts of new language, looks and expectations (shaved heads, tattoos, piercings, A&F, "straight-acting", etc.). And while I enjoy porn, I don't necessarily want to look like or date someone who appears to screw anyone on camera for money. To each his own, but it's just not for me.
#9Save it, don't shave it
Posted: 12/30/11 at 1:13pm
I'm moderately hairy -- i.e., hairy in places.
I don't shave my body parts. I don't trim my pubes.
I shave my face once every two or three weeks. I might have a beard, scruffiness, a mustache, or be entirely clean-shaven.
I have no preferences in a sexual partner, as long as it works for them.
henrikegerman
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/29/05
#10Save it, don't shave it
Posted: 12/30/11 at 3:30pmIndeed Mr. Matt is was definitely a late 80s invention and culminated in the 90s.
#11Save it, don't shave it
Posted: 12/30/11 at 7:35pm
The men's "vanity movement" started when the women's movement took off-when women became political and vocal, men became more interested in fashion and grooming to attract women, who were less complacent and docile. Women now had to be lured and vied for. Male ego and competition fed this.
Gay culture tends to run separately from the straight men's vanity movement, with gay men bucking trends and often setting trends for straight men.
However, all men gay or straight, are more objectified in the same vein as women have been all these years. It's sad we are actually going backwards in terms of awareness. More people report body dissatisfaction than ever before.
Men are influenced by the dominant media archetypes in advertising, which are smooth, lithe and tiny. Young men wish to mimic the models in Abercrombie, AE, and celebrities. Eating disorders are running rampant in young men who are starving themselves for tiny waists and legs to look like folks like Brandon Flowers and Zac Efron.
Also hairless bodies show muscle definition more prominently and make penises look bigger. Total body shaving is a form of OCD for many young men and falls in line with body obsession and body dysmorphic disorder. Many young people view body hair as unclean when it actually serves a function. People with no pubic hair or shaved or waxed pubic hair are more prone to sexually transmitted infections due to rubbing, chafing and wounding due to friction. Pubic hair actually has a purpose people.
So don't shave it! Save it! Trimming is fine, but no baldies!!!!
#12Save it, don't shave it
Posted: 12/31/11 at 3:51am
It's definitely true--I sometimes do work at my old high school and while I graduated there just over a decade ago, the way the male students are basically as groomed, coifed and styled as the girls is definite a change from when I went there (which I'm sure was a change frrom the decade before). The joke used to always be that teen girls (and women) wanted to be as skinny as possible and men as big (in a bulky not fat) way, but that's definitely changing as well--for the men. And I guess with the increased reliance on the internet, the fact that now any teen can see as much porn as they want (I'm kinda glad I *just* missed that era and still found as a teen the random pornographic magazine exciting), it probably just will increase.
It's obvious, but true, that one of the disadvantages of mass media is an increased focus on one basic beauty image. 100 years ago the average person from Japan to England didn't have the same movie stars, models, or whatever as the ideal of physical beauty. Of course going even further back it was even smaller--you'd be basically judged by the people who you saw in your town or area of the city, not by the hundreds of thousands of faces you see thanks to media and transportation every day.
And it is kinda ironic that facial hair is so trendy now--I dunno I find the site of a guy with facial scruff and a clean shaven body disconcerting.
henrikegerman
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/29/05
#13Save it, don't shave it
Posted: 12/31/11 at 10:56am
Very astute points about objectification and vanity, Bettyboy. However, male beauty can also be celebrated, and for that matter objectified on completely different terms. Personally, I'm all for good (in my opinion, some) grooming, both facial and body. But facial, body and pubic hair are to me extremely hot. And I am certainly not alone in this. This doesn't make my aesthetic any more, or less, elevated or noble, or any less vain, than those who celebrate and or objectify male beauty on terms that are more classically Greek/late 80s-90s. However, I have always felt this way and can't see it changing. I'm happy not to be a fashion victim. And I am sure there are men and women who have different fascinations that I do which are equally impervious to fashion.
In other words, I think we need to distinguish what is vulnerable to vanity and physical fascination and what is vulnerable to what "Madison Avenue" tells us is hot this year versus next year. Realizing, however, that social norms may have a great deal to do with what we decide is sexy during formative stages in our sexuality. Perhaps because I came of age during the 70s, Sam Elliot and Sean Connery will always be sexier to me than the boys at Abercrombie (that and, of course, other facets of myself, both related to nature and nurture). Maybe if I came of age now, things might be very different.
Then again there are those of my generation with very different aesthetics, and for every Burt Reynolds of my young adulthood there was a Christopher Atkins (in terms of the models of male beauty, if one were going to conform to a perceived social norm). Everyone's different as Kinsey said.
Updated On: 12/31/11 at 10:56 AM
#14Save it, don't shave it
Posted: 12/31/11 at 9:27pm
I think that's a valid point--it is worth differentiating between the two. I guess it just seems like increasingly for guys (and as stated it's been like this for women for much longer, though I don't see it getting any better) there is this false ideal that is increasingly more unrealistic, and more "samey" as well. You never see a guy in a major movie or tv show take off his shirt without some decent ab definition (in fact I've seen paparazzi photos often with a fairly average, fit bodied star and everyone goes on about how he's let himself go--again, this obviously has happened to women for ages).
But it is also true that in the hairy is better age, there always were a few male idols who went after the more adrogynous, teen heart-throb look--although that wasn't seen as a masculine ideal so much. But that probably went back at least as far as the 1950s "sensitive male" start that John Wayne found so insulting--Dean, Clift, etc. (Although Monty Clift--my favorite--had, among his many huge insecurities, a hatred for his body hair--and from the rare beach photos when he wasn't hsaved he was pretty hairy like I am. He spent a lot of time and money on electrolysis which wasn't too effective back then).
The difference seems to be that now the male ideal is the Marky Mark look (OK, at least back to the mid 90s among young people)--baby smooth but masculine and defined. Which is fine I guess, and the media always tends to look down on diversity. Like I said, it does seem that *very light* chest hair is now coming into vogue in the mainstream judging by models anyway and some actors, which is going for the more grungy look coming back into style--a uber coiffed maintained version of grunge.
However Arnie Hammer (from The Social Network) said that for his upcoming role as the Prince in Mirror Mirror his only major battle with the director and producer was their insistence he have his chest waxed for his shirtless scene--he refused saying he felt emasculated enough wearing tights...
EVen back in the studio system days they had weird rules about chest hair and the 70s hairy chest thing may have been backlas to that. Actors did have to shave their chests for most love scenes--as a hairy chest was deemed too sexual. Only if it was a clearly non sexual role--like a biblical epic--would they usually allow them not to shave...
#15Save it, don't shave it
Posted: 1/1/12 at 1:56amIt seems like men are getting smaller and women are getting bigger. I mean, when I'm at the mall, I see teen males who are so tiny-tiny waists, tiny legs, tiny bodies. That seems to be the desired aesthetic right now. It's very different from when I was a teen and all the guys wanted to be bigger and hated being thin.
henrikegerman
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/29/05
#17Save it, don't shave it
Posted: 1/2/12 at 12:13amI think it depends on how your chest hair grows in. If it looks ****ed up then you're better off just shaving it off. A hairy chest is nice as long as it's not a jungle and you can't see skin.
husk_charmer
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/19/06
#18Save it, don't shave it
Posted: 1/2/12 at 10:44am
See, I disagree with TheatreFan4, I think almost any amount of body hair is pretty sexy...be it a light dusting, or what we can see peeking out of TheMysteriousGrowl's shirt, or a full rug.
That said, most of the people interested in me want me as smooth as possible (and being pretty naturally smooth that's not that hard. Seriously, I can't even grow facial hair)
MamasDoin'Fine
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/28/08
#19Save it, don't shave it
Posted: 1/2/12 at 11:13amI want photographic evidence of all of the above!!!
henrikegerman
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/29/05
#20Save it, don't shave it
Posted: 1/2/12 at 3:45pm
I'm with Husk, TheatreFan. But even if I didn't like "jungle" chests, I don't see why the answer would be to shave. Grooming or buzzing down will allow the skin to come through without shaving to absolute bald smoothness.
There's also the fact to consider that all different types of men can be sexy, and some men happen to look better as hairy as possible, some look very sexy smooth and perhaps look much better that way than with hair, some look fantastic with bald heads, some don't, some look great with long hair, some men look much, much better with facial hair. Some men look healthy and gorgeous naturally and very lithe, some men look extremely sexy stocky and with a little extra (and some people like more than a little extra on guys). It all depends on the guy, and, of course, depending, on who's doing the looking, feeling, and, etcc., etc.. And sometimes one may even consider altering one's appearance to please a partner. Or, not altering for that reason (I haven't exactly vetoed - so as to avoid being that controlling - but have strongly discouraged mine from tattoos for instance).
Unknown User
Joined: 12/31/69
#21Save it, don't shave it
Posted: 1/3/12 at 4:10pmI agree we need photo documentation of each stage of forestation, men!
#22Save it, don't shave it
Posted: 1/3/12 at 4:26pmShaving is bad!
"In Oz, the verb is douchifizzation." PRS
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