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So how does Biden help Obama win? — Page 6

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#126

OBAMA/BORING '08!

"Only the most strident Hillary supporters appear to be upset this morning."

Well, that would be wrong.

That's just like a weather man saying we have a 20 percent chance of rain today, and I look outside my window and it's pouring.

But I DID expect the spin-doctors to start spinning and doctoring right away. So, off we go!
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
#127

OBAMA/BORING '08!

I thought our Democratic party was all about change? What's so different about Biden?? As far as Hillary not wanting the VP, I don't know what you've been reading but I heard her say she would consider it.

Hillary is being the good Democrat and doing and saying the right thing for the party in order to have her moment at the convention (which she deserves). I just say what I see and so far, Obama doesn't practice what he preaches. He has made the concessions that every poltician must make (gee, is that how things get done??)...Now, he adds Biden so he can win over the traditionalists who have known all along that this is how our goverment works, like it or not. All the criticisms he made in the primaries about same old government, politics, etc are just revealing him for what he is, a underqualified, ambitious politican. So much for change.
The only review of a show that matters is your own.
#128

OBAMA/BORING '08!

So who would've made y'all happy (besides Hillary)?

Really, I can see Biden not being someone's first choice, shrugging and moving on. But all this outrage and, "how could he be so stupid?" and "OMG, it was leaked before I got amy text message! I feel so betrayed! That's it! I'm voting for the candidate who believes the exact opposite of Obama!" It's all just a little bit beyond me. What exactly is so awful about this choice relative to the other potential choices?

In my eyes right now, y'all seem nuts and irrational. Really. I know that MOST of you really aren't. So help me understand why you think this choice is so horrible that you won't vote for Obama, or you think it will make him lose. Is this really just about Hillary?

Art has a double face, of expression and illusion.

Updated On: 8/23/08 at 11:59 AM

#129

OBAMA/BORING '08!

Here. This will make SOME of us happy: Biden's record on GLBT issues from HRC (Human Rights Campaign, not Hillary Rodham Clinton):

===

Biden's record on LGBT rights, via the Human Rights Campaign:

Highlights of Senator Joe Biden’s Record of Support for the GLBT Community

101st Congress (1989-1990): Overall Scorecard Rating 90%
102nd Congress (1991-1992): Overall Scorecard Rating 91%
103rd Congress (1993-1994): Overall Scorecard Rating 89%
104th Congress (1995-1996): Overall Scorecard Rating 78%
105th Congress (1997-199OBAMA/BORING '08!: Overall Scorecard Rating 83%
106th Congress (1999-2000): Overall Scorecard Rating 86%
107th Congress (2001-2002): Overall Scorecard Rating 100%
108th Congress (2003-2004): Overall Scorecard Rating 63%
109th Congress (2005-2006): Overall Scorecard Rating 78%

● Helms Amendment – Hate Crimes Statistics Act (February 8, 1990)
Senator Helms offered an amendment to a hate crimes statistics bill (S. AMDT. 1251 to S. 419) stating that “the homosexual movement threatens the strength and survival of the American family” and that “state sodomy laws should be enforced.” The Helms amendment failed 19-77 (Record Vote No. 12). HRC opposed this amendment. Biden also opposed it.

● District of Columbia’s Health Care Benefits Expansion Act (July 30, 1992)
Senator Brock Adams (D-WA) offered a procedural motion to block attempts to repeal the District of Columbia’s Health Care Benefits Expansion Act, a measure adopted by the D.C. Council to provide D.C. government employees the opportunity to purchase health care coverage for their domestic partners. The motion failed 41-51 and implementation of the D.C. law was subsequently prohibited by Congress. HRC supported this motion. Biden also supported it.

● Justice Clarence Thomas Confirmation (October 15, 1991)
The Senate voted on President George H.W. Bush’s nomination of Clarence Thomas to the U.S. Supreme Court. The Senate confirmed his nomination 52-48 (Record Vote No. 220). HRC opposed this nomination. Biden also opposed it.

● Hate Crimes Sentencing Enhancement (November 4, 1993)
Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) offered an amendment to the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1993 (S. AMDT. 1097 to S. 1607) to increase penalties for federal crimes motivated by the victim’s sexual orientation and other characteristics. The Feinstein Amendment was the first piece of federal legislation to provide protection on the basis of sexual orientation. The amendment passed 95-4 (Record Vote No. 351). HRC supported this amendment. Biden also supported it.

● Codification of the Ban on Gays and Lesbians in the Military (September 9, 1993)
Senator Barbara Boxer (D-CA) offered an amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act of 1994 (S. AMDT. 783 to S. 129OBAMA/BORING '08! to prevent codification of the discriminatory “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy on lesbians and gays in the military. The amendment failed 33-63 (Record Vote No. 250). HRC supported this amendment. Biden also supported it.

● District of Columbia’s Domestic Partners Ordinance (July 27, 1993)
An amendment was offered to allow the District of Columbia to implement its ordinance allowing unmarried couples or partners to register with the D.C. government, making them eligible for group health insurance offered to D.C. government employees for a higher premium. It failed 43-55 (Record Vote No. 217). HRC supported this amendment. Biden also supported it.

● Employment Non-Discrimination Act (September 10, 1996)
In its first test in Congress, the Employment Non-Discrimination Act (S. 932), which would prohibit employment discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, came within one vote of passage in the Senate. Senator David Pryor (D-AR), who supported ENDA, missed the vote for a family emergency. The bill failed 49-50 (Record Vote No. 281). HRC supported this bill. Biden also supported it.

● Hate Crimes Amendment to Defense Authorization (June 20, 2000)
Senators Edward Kennedy (D-MA) and Gordon Smith (R-OR) introduced the Hate Crimes Prevention Act, renamed the Local Law Enforcement Enhancement Act, as an amendment to the fiscal year 2001 defense authorization bill (S. AMDT. 3473 to S. 2549). The Kennedy-Smith amendment would extend basic hate crime protections to all Americans in all communities by adding real or perceived sexual orientation, gender and disability to the categories covered and by removing the federally protected activity requirement. This amendment was overwhelmingly approved 57-42 (Record Vote No. 136). HRC supported this amendment. Biden also supported it.

● Federal Marriage Amendment (July 14, 2004)
The Federal Marriage Amendment (S.J. Res 40), introduced in the Senate by Senator Wayne Allard (R-CO), would have enshrined discrimination into the U.S. Constitution by defining marriage as the union between one man and one woman and prohibiting federal and state laws from conferring same-sex couples with marital status and “the legal incidents thereof,” thereby endangering civil unions and domestic partnership benefits. The amendment needed a two-thirds majority (67) to be passed in the Senate and a three-fifths majority (60) to proceed to a vote on the amendment (cloture). The cloture motion failed 48-50 (Record Vote No. 155). HRC opposed this cloture motion. Biden also opposed it.

● Federal Marriage Amendment (June 7, 2006)
The Marriage Protection Amendment (formerly called the Federal Marriage Amendment) (S.J. Res. 1) would have enshrined discrimination into the U.S. Constitution by defining marriage as the union between one man and one woman and prohibiting federal and state laws from conferring same-sex couples with marital status and “the legal incidents thereof.” The amendment would thereby endanger civil unions and domestic partnership benefits. The amendment failed by a vote of 49-48, falling 11 votes short of the 60 necessary to invoke cloture, a procedural motion to advance to a vote on the substance of the bill (Record Vote No. 163). The amendment would have needed 67 votes (two-thirds majority) to pass. HRC opposed this amendment. Biden also opposed it.

● Justice Samuel Alito Confirmation (January 31, 2006)
The Senate voted on President W. Bush’s nomination of Judge Samuel Alito to the U.S. Supreme Court. The Senate confirmed his nomination 58-42 (Record Vote No. 2). HRC opposed this nomination. Biden also opposed it.

● Judge William Pryor Confirmation (June 9, 2005)
The Senate voted on President Bush’s nomination of Judge William Pryor to the Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals. The Senate confirmed his nomination 53-45 (Record Vote No. 133). HRC opposed this nomination. Biden also opposed it.
#130

OBAMA/BORING '08!

It's not about Hillary, its about the supposed platform of change. How is Joe Biden change? How is anyone who is male, white and been in Washington anything different than we've had in the past? If not Hillary, how about Bill Richardson? Nancy Pelosi? Ruth Minner of Delaware??
The only review of a show that matters is your own.
#131

OBAMA/BORING '08!

How many times has Joe Biden run for president? I think if the Democratic voters wanted him, he would have succeeded a long time ago. Yes, he does have an impressive record on some issues as does Ted Kennedy, but they were not electable.
The only review of a show that matters is your own.
#132

OBAMA/BORING '08!

Electorally far as Delaware is concerned, not much

Some of Bidens past statements do not help either.He does not help as much as others would have. He went for the tie instead of a win.

If Obama needs help defeating Mc Cain he needs much more help than any VP candidate will bring him.
Poster Emeritus
#133

OBAMA/BORING '08!

We will see endless clips of Joe Biden talking about Obama's lack of qualification and experience. Republicans will mop them up. They play much dirtier than we do and this plays right into their plan.
The only review of a show that matters is your own.
#134

OBAMA/BORING '08!

How are any of them change?

Pulling this, "that's not change" line can't be the answer for everything. That's a naive view of things. Obama never said, "I'm going to change everything about everything in Washington. Everything I do will be new!" He said he intended to reach across party lines, break the deadlocked legislature, fight special interests. He never said he was going to throw everyone in Washington out and start fresh. Your view of his promise of change is warped.

And you're the one that said he should have picked Hilary, right after you mentioned the Biden video as a reason for him being a bad choice, MC1227. So, I think for some people it IS about Hillary.
Art has a double face, of expression and illusion.
#135

OBAMA/BORING '08!

For those of you who thought Obama was something more than a good politician with amazing speaking skills, I know you are disappointed that he did not pick some progressive on the ticket.

For those of us who think Obama is a good politician with amazing speaking skills, this is a good choice. You have an older, Roman Catholic white man, from working class roots, saying "this guy is for real, he can do it, and I am standing behind him." It is a powerful message to those voters that Obama has not been able to sway - many of the Clinton working-class faithful in Ohio, Pennsylvania and elsewhere.

I am OK with this choice, because not only do I want to win in November, but I want to have Obama surround himself with people of experience.

I think it is the politically savvy choice. Unlike many of the folks on here, I generally like Biden. I would have preferred Clinton or Clark, but Biden reassures me that Obama realizes the challenges he is facing, and will surround himself with people with experience, and varying backgrounds in order to make a decision. Biden also has a son deploying to Iraq, which does not hurt.

And, he can go after Grampy McSame as an effective attack dog.

#136

OBAMA/BORING '08!

PalJoey, I understand your support of a human rights supporter, but the rest of the country views that as ultra liberal which is why Joe Biden was not successful in his bid for president.
The only review of a show that matters is your own.
#137

OBAMA/BORING '08!

From the National Organization for Women (N.O.W.):

"Senator Hillary Clinton was our first choice, and that of 18 million primary voters, but presumptive Democratic nominee Senator Barack Obama's pick, Joe Biden, is a friend of women and a strong selection for Vice President. Biden authored and championed the landmark 1994 Violence Against Women Act (VAWA), winning bipartisan support and unprecedented funding for prevention, shelter and safety. VAWA has twice been reauthorized, each time with increased protections for survivors of violence.
Art has a double face, of expression and illusion.
#138

OBAMA/BORING '08!

Joe Biden never got traction after 1987 - I don't think it has anything to do with his record, more that he is not as charismatic as some of the other candidates.

I have never though of Biden as an ultra-liberal, to be honest.

Feingold, sure. Kucinich, yeah, Biden, no.
#139

OBAMA/BIDEN '08! Live with it or vote for Grandpa Munster

If you're so unhappy with Obama's choice, or with Obama himself, then vote McCain in November... and condemn thousands more Americans and Iraqis to death, overturn Roe vs. Wade, forget about Universal Health Care, watch the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, AND GET EXACTLY THE PRESIDENT AND COUNTRY YOU DESERVE.
#140

OBAMA/BIDEN '08! Live with it or vote for Grandpa Munster

"If you're so unhappy with Obama's choice, or with Obama himself, then vote McCain in November..."

Oh, I'm very disappointed. But I (for one) never said I was voting for McCain.

And I won't be.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
#141

OBAMA/BIDEN '08! Live with it or vote for Grandpa Munster

Oh I forgot, I can't vote for Obama because I am Jewish. Because, according to the always thoughtful Luscious, Jews won't vote for Obama.

Take whatever it says with a grain of salt. As per the "wise" one:


"Not gonna happen.
Posted On: 8/16/08 at 07:09 PM

Let's face it; most Jews are never going to fully support Obama. There... I said it. The very thought of having a "schvatza" as President repels them. Thankfully, my Jewish friends and colleagues are much more progressive and open-minded in their thinking.
."

Updated On: 8/23/08 at 12:40 PM

#142

OBAMA/BIDEN '08! Live with it or vote for Grandpa Munster

You know, I don't really get this choice personally. But, as insider as Biden is, I have always liked him and don't mind the choice all that much. I don't see how he helps the ticket, other than bring serious foreign policy cred, so I don't get WHY he was chosen but I don't mind it as much as some.

But I was just talking to my mom, and I asked her what she thought of the choice. "What he picked already," she said, "who is it?" Biden, I told her. "Oh no," she said. "Oh no, that...that just makes me wanna throw-up."

So she's on the same page as a lot of you.
"One no longer loves one's insight enough once one communicates it."

The opposite of creation isn't war, it's stagnation.
#143

OBAMA/BIDEN '08! Live with it or vote for Grandpa Munster

Some of you sound like Republicans. How dare we dissent or criticize!? "You're either with us or against us". Well, I'll exercise my freedom of speech. And JUST like in the primary and after the primary, instead of being hateful, you could focus on the good. SHOW us why Biden is just so wonderful. SHOW us why Obama isn't just another liar whose primary campaign was a big ol fantasy.

HERE is why many of us are pissed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDVUPqoowf8http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDVUPqoowf8http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDVUPqoowf8http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDVUPqoowf8

It's not that it wasn't Hillary--though I will fully admit that a portion of my feelings about this ARE that disappointment. But I knew that it wasn't going to be her most likely.

So WHO would I have been good with? Richardson. Clark. A surprise outsider or woman or person of color. Not Hillary Clinton with a penis.

And, I'm allowed to be pissed and voice my opinions.

Let me post this again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDVUPqoowf8http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDVUPqoowf8http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDVUPqoowf8http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDVUPqoowf8

Good luck!


johnraymondbarker.com

Updated On: 8/24/08 at 12:49 PM

#144

OBAMA/BIDEN '08! Live with it or vote for Grandpa Munster

"Oh I forgot, I can't vote for Obama because I am Jewish. Because, according to the always thoughtful Luscious, Jews won't vote for Obama."

No. That's not what I said. I said "MOST Jews are never going to fully support Obama". And I stand by that. Glad to hear you march to the beat of your own drummer, as do my Jewish friends and colleagues as I stated clearly in my original post. However, the fact of the matter is, whether you're willing to admit it or not, MOST Jews will never fully support and vote for Obama. And if a Jew were running for President, most African Americans wouldn't vote for him/her either. We can't even begin to tackle and conquer racism in this country until we're willing and able to acknowledge it exists instead of pretending it doesn't by feigning surprise and outrage when someone brings it up.


Updated On: 8/23/08 at 01:09 PM

#145

OBAMA/BIDEN '08! Live with it or vote for Grandpa Munster

I think it is the politically savvy choice. Unlike many of the folks on here, I generally like Biden. I would have preferred Clinton or Clark, but Biden reassures me that Obama realizes the challenges he is facing, and will surround himself with people with experience, and varying backgrounds in order to make a decision.

YWIW states my position exactly. Once we got over the "disappointment" of "our choices" not being embraced by the Democratic Party, we started talking about all of the reasons we have respected Joe Biden over the years. And one of great significance for me has been his support for and active participation in protecting women and children against violence. Somehow, I had forgotten about that.

Last week, I was thinking about "geographic strategy" and how a Southerner would be the best choice. Now I recognize the sound strategy behind selecting an "old, white guy." (Please see my Barbie/Paris Hilton post above.)

Biden provides good contrast to Obama. He said Obama wasn't "ready" for the presidency, but HE was, right? Well, now that comment can be spun into one that proves his point: Obama may not have much experience, but people like Joe Biden do...and they will not be forgotten or ignored. In fact, they will play integral roles in the administration.

Let's be realistic. Here on the board we are, for the most part, extremely liberal, left-wing bleeding hearts. (I include myself in that description; no offense intended.) We forget that radical and rapid change scares the living daylights out of most people. A "safe" choice is not a bad one in this instance. It creates BALANCE.
"Be on your guard! Jerks on the loose!"

http://www.roches.com/television/ss83kod.html

**********

"If any relationship involves a flow chart, get out of it...FAST!"

~ Best12Bars
#146

OBAMA/BIDEN '08! Live with it or vote for Grandpa Munster

No lusciou, you are the racist. What you said was:

What you said was:
Not gonna happen.
Posted On: 8/16/08 at 07:09 PM
Let's face it; most Jews are never going to fully support Obama. There... I said it. The very thought of having a "schvatza" as President repels them. Thankfully, my Jewish friends and colleagues are much more progressive and open-minded in their thinking.

Which, if you don't think is racist just shows what an ass you truly are.

And just as a bonus, let me point out that the comment was apropos to nothing being discussed. Just a good ole' Jew hating shout out.

Here, allow me to provide the context of your hate:

link
....but the world goes 'round

Updated On: 8/23/08 at 01:17 PM

#147

OBAMA/BIDEN '08! Live with it or vote for Grandpa Munster

"Not Hillary Clinton with a penis."

jrb--bro, in times of war the first thing you gotta get a grip on is your penis. obama was starting to appear a bit flaccid so he needed reinforcement.

an intangible is that one of biden's sons is scheduled to be deployed to Iraq before the election. the msm will use it to counter McCain's cult following. surely not one of us believes the msm are being an honest broker.

#FactsMatter...your feelings not so much.

Updated On: 8/23/08 at 01:17 PM

#148

OBAMA/BIDEN '08! Live with it or vote for Grandpa Munster

You sad, little poster/poser.

To assume that the antisemitism fostered by some in the black community (which is a somewhat recent phenomenon, fostered by the Nation of Islam) means that "Most" Jews will never vote for blacks is evidence of your lack of depth and understanding. Many of my Jewish friends are fine with Obama. But I guess we are all the exception.

Go crawl back into your cave.

You do a disservice to your candidate.
#149

OBAMA/BIDEN '08! Live with it or vote for Grandpa Munster

It is people like you luscious that are going to lose this election for Obama.

You are a party divider in a far more significant way than any hillary supporter.
....but the world goes 'round
#150

OBAMA/BIDEN '08! Live with it or vote for Grandpa Munster

Let's stop fighting amongst ourselves and start fighting with the Republicans, okay?

(Luscious, you're not helping.)
"Be on your guard! Jerks on the loose!"

http://www.roches.com/television/ss83kod.html

**********

"If any relationship involves a flow chart, get out of it...FAST!"

~ Best12Bars

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