So- did the infomercial make you want to vote Obama?- Page 3

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 10/30/08 at 4:36pm

Papa, while you have your crystal ball out, why don't you paint us a picture of the McCain presidency, should that occur?

[mc1227]

Posted: 10/30/08 at 4:42pm

Let me preface this with the fact that I am a Clinton supporter. I did not like Obama during the primaries and actually considered voting for McCain in this election up to about a month or so ago.

With the country falling apart, McCain chose to align himself with the Republican mud-slingers and fear mongers instead of staying focused on this very important election and the future of our country. He became something he has never really been in his career and I figured if he's so easily swayed by the people around him, i.e. the choosing of Palin, turning his campaign ugly, trying to stir up the terrorist connection, then he's not really putting this country first. He's playing right into the wealthy Republican support who only care about getting richer and having a puppet in the White House so they can continue to fight a war for oil and make CEO's get richer on our dollar.

Therefore I started looking closer at Obama. I don't feel he will be able to do half of what he wants to do (or can realistically do) but I believe just having a new vision, new ideas, and being a role model for young men who currently have no positive male role model, might just start to turn this country in the right direction. Maybe not, but we can hope. With McCain, it will just be more years of widening the divisons of the economic and social classes. It's not good for America.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 10/30/08 at 4:49pm

i don't mind paying more taxes

i know. we differ on that.

a mccain presidency would be reasonably moderate justices appointed to the supreme court, a quiet restructuring of forces from an increasingly calmer iraq to afghanistan (and back home to help quell the riots that followed the mccain win), surprisingly bi-partisan approaches to all of the biggest problems facing the country (with the president often siding with the opposition against his own party), an even-handed energy policy that engages new ideas from bio-fuels to wind to solar to oil-shale to drilling everywhere to buttloads of new nuclear reactors & oil refineries and lots and lots of vetoes of the more ridiculous bills to come out of the lowest rated congress in the history of the republic.

[best12bars]

Posted: 10/30/08 at 4:50pm

"Papa, while you have your crystal ball out, why don't you paint us a picture of the McCain presidency, should that occur?"



Oh, don't ask him to do that, Reg. Because NO Republican has an answer for that.

They can only criticize "that other guy!" It's their entire platform.

The Democrats vs. the Political Critics.

The Republicans are nonexistent.

This race would be interesting if we actually had two sets of detailed plans, programs, strategies, and ideas to choose from.

I would look at what each one has to offer. But, instead, we get a detailed plan on Democrat side, and a vague sketch of what MIGHT occur MAYBE on the Republican side--with mostly attacks thrown at the Democrats.

Totally lame. Not working.

And it's a no-brainer at this point.

Problem is... we have a lot of no-brains showing up to vote next week.

So I'm still very concerned.


EDIT: LOL papa just proved my point. Could you BE any more vague about the Republican "plan?" That's a lot of "general rhetoric" with no real steps or solutions outlined.

EXHIBIT A.


"We would... um... make the word a better place!"

Updated On: 10/30/08 at 04:50 PM

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 10/30/08 at 4:55pm

That's a pretty utopian vision, Papa, but it in no wise intersects with the McCain I've been witnessing in the past year (much less the woman from Wasilla).

I wasn't aware that even their most fervent supporters were throwing around words like "calm," "moderate," "quiet," and "even-handed."

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 10/30/08 at 5:16pm

"and lots and lots of vetoes of the more ridiculous bills to come out of the lowest rated congress in the history of the republic. "

You do understand their low-rating is a correlation with having a president and administration with the lowest approval and highest disapproval ratings in history right?

Your talking points are tired and pathetic.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 10/30/08 at 5:22pm

But they don't lack irony! Papa always has his sense of humor.

[wonkit]

Posted: 10/30/08 at 6:45pm

The info-mercial did NOT make me want to vote for Obama. But I have this overwhelming urge to order a set of Ginsu knives.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 10/30/08 at 6:49pm

already was going to vote for him. The infomercial showed me that he has an actualy workable plan, while McIdiot and McBeotch do not....

[Roninjoey]

Posted: 10/30/08 at 7:16pm

Papa, those lovely platitudes are the same things conservative optimists like to give Obama because they're the nice feel good things we'd all like to see happen. Thing is I sort of see Obama as more likely to do them, considering McCain is on record with very conservative ideas about the supreme court and is a war hawk. Do you really think McCain can win the hearts of the Muslim world where George couldn't?

More likely McCain presidency: John McCain gets into office, has troublesome first year trying to fix the Bush problems (just like Obama will), ages significantly. Due to his hot head he alienates many of our allies. Things explode in Pakistan and Iran. John McCain has a heart attack, is incapacitated. Sarah Palin assumes presidency. Everyone involved craps their pants. Other world powers see chance. US is attacked. US descends into anarchy due to the extreme conflicts between Red and Blue. Meanwhile, supreme court justices die. Sarah Palin appoints the most conservative supreme court justices in years, assumes totalitarian rule over country to try to quell problems. Nero fiddles.

I'm being an alarmist obviously but anyone who thinks the presidency will not age John dramatically, that the world will not hesitate to take advantage of a President Palin, that the country will begin chaffing against the inevitable extreme Right agenda that will be foisted upon it... the man is just too old, and he should have never picked that woman. Country First my ass.

PS. Clinton isn't running anymore. Get over it.

[nygrl232]

Posted: 10/30/08 at 7:30pm

This election makes my stomach hurt. I like neither candidate--McSame isn't even a consideration, and Obama's idealism is somewhat alienating, even though he means well. His first year of presidency is going to require major teamwork--rooting out sources of corruption, cleaning up the considerable W mess, dealing with the nutjobs with assassination on the brain... tall freaking order. He's going to have to change the face of politics to basically a not so evil game. I can just see CNN's rolling ticker--"another Washington insider accused of plotting to oust President Obama."

I prefer Obama over McCain. Can he clean out that filthy an attic, though? Can he acquire the teamwork he needs in all sectors? Gah, my stomach.

[jasonf]

Posted: 10/30/08 at 7:35pm

Honestly, I could have tolerated all the nonsense from McCain because I do believe he means well - if it weren't for Palin. The idea of her as President is TERRIFYING.

[snl89]

Posted: 10/30/08 at 7:48pm

This election makes my stomach hurt. I like neither candidate--McSame isn't even a consideration, and Obama's idealism is somewhat alienating, even though he means well. His first year of presidency is going to require major teamwork--rooting out sources of corruption, cleaning up the considerable W mess, dealing with the nutjobs with assassination on the brain... tall freaking order. He's going to have to change the face of politics to basically a not so evil game. I can just see CNN's rolling ticker--"another Washington insider accused of plotting to oust President Obama."

I prefer Obama over McCain. Can he clean out that filthy an attic, though? Can he acquire the teamwork he needs in all sectors? Gah, my stomach.


Oh I think we ALL agree on that front :) I mean, by NO means am I expecting Obama to do a perfect job. In fact, it's much more likely he'll do a totally LOUSY job at fulfilling everything he's saying he'll do that a great job. And yet, I'd still pick that ANY day over someone like McCain and Palin. With McCain and Palin, just like with Bush, we'd actually be taking steps BACKWARD in terms of what needs to happen for our country to prosper again. At least with Obama, even if he gets only a small percentage of the things he wants to do done, that's still a small step in the RIGHT direction. That's still at least paving the WAY for more change to happen.



aaaand I just discovered this, and it gave me such chills:
http://www.barackobama.com/tv

pretty much a lot of the same stuff from the infomercial, but all the stuff that nearly made me teary eyed <3 He just seems like such a good, decent PERSON. AND I really do believe he has the know-how and intelligence to run this country, even in the state it's in. And I've NEVER seen any other politician really who seems like he/she has the ability to do their job well AND is a truly decent human being.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 10/30/08 at 7:54pm

I wish we had internet message boards back in 1932. Did Hoover fans make such passionate cases for another four years of inaction? Were Roosevelt fans called stupid and naive for thinking he might turn the country around?

[nygrl232]

Posted: 10/30/08 at 7:59pm

Yes, Obama seems like a good soul. Which is why he's going to be one big fat freaking target. Ah, where are the Tums...

[Roninjoey]

Posted: 10/30/08 at 7:59pm

The NYTimes put up all their presidential endorsements since Abraham Lincoln. Check 'em out, it's pretty interesting.

I'm sure history has pretty well documented what people were saying about these presidential candidates anyway.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 10/30/08 at 8:35pm

"Obama's idealism is somewhat alienating"

Oh yeah, never vote for somebody with ideals.

Enjoy your cynicism as long as you like. But FYI, there's no payoff.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 10/30/08 at 10:28pm

and my vision of obama's presidency was so much more specific and detailed.

i'll boil it down:

obama = gov't takes more of your money and gives you what they decide you need

mccain = gov't takes less of your money and says, "if you think you need it, use your money to get it."

but hey, things go in cycles and maybe it's time for the country to suffer some tyranny at the hands of those who think they know better than you how you should be living your life. since most of you agree with them, it's of course not tyranny, but just a better way of living. pardon me if i don't sign on to your suicide pact. i'll be over here cheering. have at it folks, it's all yours. unless of course your boy gags and loses. and then we'll continue as stewards.

[madbrian]

Posted: 10/30/08 at 10:51pm

Papa - your boiled down version of McCain's economic philosophy sounds an awful lot like Bush's. How's that workin' out? Do you really think he's going to be able to cut taxes and balance a budget? Right, he'll cut earmarks and reform the government. Even if he could cut every earmark, that doesn't put a dent in the budget.

Here's my perspective - there may be times for fiscal conservatism, but this isn't one of those times. Right now, with unemployment rising and our infrastructure crumbling, tax cuts just aren't going to get it done. Recent history has shown us that. There's much that needs to be done in this country, and the private sector just can't do it all. Right now, I think we need government spending so that the economy can get back on track.

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 10/31/08 at 12:18am

true dat Madbrain.


Bush and McCain's agenda/platforms are so far from the conservative ideals that I have any respect for, it's really hard to understand anyone supporting them.

Yet their entire party thinks these are the people that should lead the way. Papa has been behind all of this nonsense especially the WAR IN IRAQ.


"It's time for the country to suffer some tyranny at the hands of those who think they know better than you how you should be living your life."

What do you think the last 8 years has been?



Updated On: 10/31/08 at 12:18 AM

[best12bars]

Posted: 10/31/08 at 9:48am

I'm tired of people trying to "boil it down."

I want specifics and details from the Republican side. I don't need any skimmed-over summary.

Oh, WAIT. There AREN'T any details! All we have from the McCain campaign is a vague, general summary of what he plans on doing.

Not good enough.

PASS.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 10/31/08 at 10:17am

I've thought about this a lot- and it's come down to "Big government" vs "Little Government." LG forces want to spend spend spend on defense- and that's about it. They want the government to do as little as possible- George W. Bush has been a staunch believer in LG.

BG thinks that government can help people- can provide health care, can look out for it's citizens, is responsible for making the lives of it's constituents better.

For eight years, GW has actively promoted LG and every single failing can be traced to this belief: Katrina, the financial crisis, the US use of torture. LG has failed and failed badly. Obama has laid out a plan to get government back in the business of improving the lives of citizens.

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 10/31/08 at 10:20am

I'm tired of all these ex-Clinton supporters that go on about "I'm not sure Obama can do everything he says he will."

First of all Hillary Clinton herself has a record of defeat and the primary is further proof of that. Obama like EVERY SINGLE OTHER politician needed to package his message and agenda for the American public. His interview on Maddow last night pointed to one important thing, "I'm winning." Yes he is. He needs to win for any of this to happen. Stop personifying this position as something more than a figure head.

Nobody's proposals are fool-proof or guaranteed. The president is not all powerful (with the exception of Cheney/Bush their power is unconstitutional). Hillary would have had the same trouble getting anything new accomplished as Obama. They will all be working with the same house/senate, public, allies, financial market, opposition, etc. Obama and Clinton have nearly the same exact platform. None of which is possible without the support of many things.

Whether or not you can come to grips with the reality that Obama unites people, is very popular and an amazing speaker is your deal. This is what an effective politician is and the proof is in the pudding. Look at the electoral map, it's incredible.

So I hate to call you stupid, but if you are stupid enough to believe John McCain offers anything new or stable then that's your deal. The Republican party has been hijacked by greedy jerks that cry socialism at the drop of a hat but swear by it when push comes to shove. There are people like Papa on this board that seemingly stand for conservative ideals that do make sense, sadly his party no longer does and it probably never will. Nonetheless these people stand by their party even if it's against their best interest. John McCain certainly wont stand by anything that doesn't involve a cash flow. He's had YEARS to prove it, he's no maverick and even if he was his own party doesn't like it.


Updated On: 10/31/08 at 10:20 AM

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 10/31/08 at 10:45am

energy:

http://www.johnmccain.com/informing/Issues/17671aa4-2fe8-4008-859f-0ef1468e96f4.htm

schools:

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/News/PressReleases/read.aspx?guid=2ca6f926-4564-4301-87cd-a5f35e68c0d4

reforming the gov't:

http://www.johnmccain.com/Issues/JobsforAmerica/reform.htm

the specifics are there, besty. like the obama supporters were fond of saying, "just read what's at his site."

look, i'm not going to change anyone's mind here and i'm not trying to. it's not like someone's going to read a post of mine, slap their head and say, "my god, he's right i must vote mccain." i'm just typing. at least until 2009 when obama's gestapo will tell me due to my repeated crimes against them i have lost internet access and am headed for a re-education camp to "help me learn" the right way to conduct myself in the socialist states of the western hemisphere.

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 10/31/08 at 11:00am

McCain's energy policy IS A JOKE. First of all plenty of offshore drilling is open already and it's not being done. What makes anyone think this is going to change?


Education... I just can't agree with the privatization of the public school system and the continued support of the failed NCLB.


Reforming the Government? You've got to be KIDDING ME. Why on earth would he go along and "pick" Palin a socialist from Alaska who was FOR the Bridge to Nowhere and has squandered millions. John McCain himself endorsed this bail-out.

He says one thing actually does another. You see that I know you do. Shame for shame about Huckabee.