#51
Posted: 9/12/12 at 3:08pm
Does this mean Ellen Barkin was named after gay icon Nana Visitor?
#52
Posted: 9/12/12 at 3:21pm
Nana Mouskouri. I know a queen who's obsessed with her.
#53
Posted: 9/12/12 at 3:22pm
Phyllis, they even acknowledged the Rachel Green and Rachel Berry connection on Glee. Rachel talked about how her bads were big friends fans and decided to name her after Rachel.
#55
Posted: 9/12/12 at 3:30pm
She was named Nana for the St. Bernard in PETER PAN since what's gayer than a little boy in green tights flying through the air with a fairy.
#56
Posted: 9/12/12 at 3:58pm
"Eric, "exposition" is really essential if we're going to know who the characters are and how they will relate to one another. I really think it takes a few weeks for all the pieces to fit together and for that "well-oiled" machine to start functioning the way it should. I recall the first episode of "Welcome Back, Kotter" as being rather disjointed, but after a few weeks it became a really good show. The same is true for "Will and Grace". The very first episode had nothing to recommend it (other than the gorgeousness of Eric McCormack), but a few weeks into its run, Karen's voice became higher and the ball really started to roll."
Dolly, fair enough. Just to be contrary, that's not what I thought of when you said exposition. I thought you merely meant story set up--what you describe is common with television and I think just is about them finding out what works, and things falling into place. (While I'm not a huge 30 Rock fan, I remember how awful the pilot was--something most fans seem to agree with--and how quickly it found its tone). This isn't just with sitcoms though--I'm a big fan of the Herskovitz/Zwick dramas like Once and Again and My So-Called Life, and watched thirtysomething after seeing those (I was too young when it aired). The early episodes are kinda hard to get through--everything people who dislike the H/Z dramas complain about is there in spades--it took 3-4 episodes to settle into itself.
However, I often find Ryan Murphy shows start off at their strongest (his real strength is coming up with good concepts), and then go down from there...
Dolly, fair enough. Just to be contrary, that's not what I thought of when you said exposition. I thought you merely meant story set up--what you describe is common with television and I think just is about them finding out what works, and things falling into place. (While I'm not a huge 30 Rock fan, I remember how awful the pilot was--something most fans seem to agree with--and how quickly it found its tone). This isn't just with sitcoms though--I'm a big fan of the Herskovitz/Zwick dramas like Once and Again and My So-Called Life, and watched thirtysomething after seeing those (I was too young when it aired). The early episodes are kinda hard to get through--everything people who dislike the H/Z dramas complain about is there in spades--it took 3-4 episodes to settle into itself.
However, I often find Ryan Murphy shows start off at their strongest (his real strength is coming up with good concepts), and then go down from there...
#57
Posted: 9/12/12 at 3:59pm
So Shania and Goldie? Is Ryan Murphy so gay that if he likes someone she becomes a gay icon>
#58
Posted: 9/12/12 at 4:03pm
Well, they're certainly very of the minute, very contemporary.
Twitter @NamoInExile
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#60
Posted: 9/12/12 at 4:05pm
Wait till it's born and they realize they have to decide what last name to give it!
#61
Posted: 9/12/12 at 4:06pm
"TV writer? Is that what the stupid-looking one does? All I know is that I have some pretty successful friends (real-world successful vs TV sitcom successful) but even the most successful among them don't live like these bozos. "
This is where I admit maybe I'm just not paying enough attention. For all the fact that Murphy is anything but subtle, and usually his plot points are very clear (even if they often make no sense), I had NO idea he was a TV writer, until his quick message about tweeting about the break up of some couple on some teen show kinda clued me into that. (I guess this fits into Murphy saying the show is loosely based on his real life? He's a version of the Rannell character, just with an eternally sour expression?) If they explained it in the pilot, I missed it--although I think most TV writers work with a writing staff, and not from home (though I know some, like Sorkin for half the week, do do it that way).
The other plot point I'm baffled about is who is the idiot boyfriend they like showing in his underwear? They *are* married? We know they've been together for 9 years (which makes Goldie seem like a complete idiot, especially if she subjected her daughter to that for so long--and Barkin's character seem all the worse for wanting him back in her grandaughter's life just so she can avoid gays). But he's not the Shania's father? Right? Maybe this show does need more exposition...
This is where I admit maybe I'm just not paying enough attention. For all the fact that Murphy is anything but subtle, and usually his plot points are very clear (even if they often make no sense), I had NO idea he was a TV writer, until his quick message about tweeting about the break up of some couple on some teen show kinda clued me into that. (I guess this fits into Murphy saying the show is loosely based on his real life? He's a version of the Rannell character, just with an eternally sour expression?) If they explained it in the pilot, I missed it--although I think most TV writers work with a writing staff, and not from home (though I know some, like Sorkin for half the week, do do it that way).
The other plot point I'm baffled about is who is the idiot boyfriend they like showing in his underwear? They *are* married? We know they've been together for 9 years (which makes Goldie seem like a complete idiot, especially if she subjected her daughter to that for so long--and Barkin's character seem all the worse for wanting him back in her grandaughter's life just so she can avoid gays). But he's not the Shania's father? Right? Maybe this show does need more exposition...
#62
Posted: 9/12/12 at 4:07pm
Hip. Edgy. Now. WOW!
Twitter @NamoInExile
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#64
Posted: 9/12/12 at 4:11pm
Phyllis answered my question: "To Eric's question, I'm thinking they sort of made it clear in this ep that Goldie was married to that guy and that he's Shania's father. I mean, I know we're supposed to think he's awful, but that's still an awfully big decision for Goldie to make, taking his child halfway across the country. Yes, I know we saw him cheat. Yes, I know he must have been equally horrible the past eight years, but that has to make one question why she let him stick around, anyway, what with living with her grandmother and all."
It certainly DOES make the fact she stayed with him (when apparently all she would do was watch him cheat and bleach his underwear) make some more sense. It seems odd that in the pilot there was no mention from Shania or anyone like "What about dad?" or "Gee, I won't miss my father!" or whatever... And in last night's episode Goldie had some weird line about when she was with Shania's father and when she left him that still made me think she was talking about someone before... Obviously it's not worth paying attention to, cuz Ryan Murphy will re-write it if he wants anyway.
It certainly DOES make the fact she stayed with him (when apparently all she would do was watch him cheat and bleach his underwear) make some more sense. It seems odd that in the pilot there was no mention from Shania or anyone like "What about dad?" or "Gee, I won't miss my father!" or whatever... And in last night's episode Goldie had some weird line about when she was with Shania's father and when she left him that still made me think she was talking about someone before... Obviously it's not worth paying attention to, cuz Ryan Murphy will re-write it if he wants anyway.
#65
Posted: 9/12/12 at 4:15pm
Joe since i have heard both Hawn and Twain referred to as such i referred to them as such sorry if i offended you.
#66
Posted: 9/12/12 at 4:15pm
Since this is supposed to be Ryan Murphy's life (his real husband is named David!) I hope we get to meet the Lea Michele-type nightmare (B)ryan works with!
And anyone who thinks things will become clearer and make more sense as it goes on has never watched a Ryan Murphy show.
And anyone who thinks things will become clearer and make more sense as it goes on has never watched a Ryan Murphy show.
#67
Posted: 9/12/12 at 4:15pm
Since that actor apparently spends a lot of time walking around in his underwear on set, Ryan will no doubt write him in as a pool boy or exotic dancer or something to keep him around. Maybe he'll move into the impeccable guest house.
#68
Posted: 9/12/12 at 4:19pm
And I'm not offended- just bewildered. Goldie Hawn hasn't made a popular film in decades- and was she ever a "gay" favorite? Likewise, Shania Twain- and I admit when I heard those names bandied about I did say "My, that is an interesting writing choice!"
Updated On: 9/12/12 at 04:19 PM
#69
Posted: 9/12/12 at 4:34pm
I have two good friends who worship Shania the same way gay men stereotypically do Madonna or Babs or whoever, so that doesn't seem so odd to me (even if it's questionable taste--I thought it was just a symptom of living in Canada). I always assumed back when Goldie was doing Liza Minelli variety specials and in talks to do Chicago she was a bit of a gay icon, but I have no idea.
As for Ryan's obsession with his gay couples fitting the "who's the man who's the woman" stereotype--he seems to rely on the same tropes in general. The stereotypes (and the "this plot twist makes no sense" and the "why do the characters act completely differently from episode to episode with no motivation) bothered me less with American Horror Story, simply because it was just a crazy horror pastiche (even if Murphy seemed to think it was the most psychologically disturbing piece of horror known to mankind). But Jessica Lange's character was essentially a gothic, less "humorous" take on Barkin's character, who as mentioned is similar to Lynch's character on Glee, who all go back at least to the many appearances of Vanessa Redgrave on Nip/Tuck. (I can't think of the equivalent on Popular, but there probably was one...)
As for Ryan's obsession with his gay couples fitting the "who's the man who's the woman" stereotype--he seems to rely on the same tropes in general. The stereotypes (and the "this plot twist makes no sense" and the "why do the characters act completely differently from episode to episode with no motivation) bothered me less with American Horror Story, simply because it was just a crazy horror pastiche (even if Murphy seemed to think it was the most psychologically disturbing piece of horror known to mankind). But Jessica Lange's character was essentially a gothic, less "humorous" take on Barkin's character, who as mentioned is similar to Lynch's character on Glee, who all go back at least to the many appearances of Vanessa Redgrave on Nip/Tuck. (I can't think of the equivalent on Popular, but there probably was one...)
#70
Posted: 9/12/12 at 5:02pm
Someone needs to slap Ryan Murphy, sit him down, and tell that taking one step forward and then taking one step back means you haven't gone anywhere at all.
He creates shows that SHOULD be progressive. Diverse! Unique! Glee was a veritable Rainbow Coalition of characters.
But then he makes his characters into wind-up stereotypes. He likes his Jews awkward, his black women fat and sassy, and his homosexuals flaming.
His shows pop in some snappy one-liners advocating equality that get made into gifs on Tumblr, and then resort back to regressive caricatures.
He creates shows that SHOULD be progressive. Diverse! Unique! Glee was a veritable Rainbow Coalition of characters.
But then he makes his characters into wind-up stereotypes. He likes his Jews awkward, his black women fat and sassy, and his homosexuals flaming.
His shows pop in some snappy one-liners advocating equality that get made into gifs on Tumblr, and then resort back to regressive caricatures.
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
#71
Posted: 9/12/12 at 5:03pm
Goldie Hawn was in THE FIRST WIVES CLUB...and that's a gay fave amongst my friends.
#72
Hey, guys, gay writers can be bad writers, too, you know.
Let's be careful not to blame his gayness more than his talentlessness.
Posted: 9/12/12 at 5:29pm
Hey, guys, gay writers can be bad writers, too, you know.
Let's be careful not to blame his gayness more than his talentlessness.
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#73
Posted: 9/12/12 at 5:30pm
I think the gayness talk become overt when we somehow got on the subject of gay icons who aren't really gay icons.
#74
Posted: 9/12/12 at 5:41pm
I think it's also due to Ryan Murphy himself--even if he were a brilliant writer, the man does himself no favours. He crows as much as possible about how revolutionary and groundbreaking he is in the way he treats people who are "different"--particularly when it comes to sexuality.
#75
Oh, of course.
I mean, assho|es are assho|es.
Gay assho|es can be a bit more noticable, though.
Wait...
Posted: 9/12/12 at 5:45pm
Oh, of course.
I mean, assho|es are assho|es.
Gay assho|es can be a bit more noticable, though.
Wait...
CHURCH DOOR TOUCAN GAY MARKETING PUPPIES MUSICAL THEATER STAPLES PERIOD OIL BITCHY SNARK HOLES
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