#27
Posted: 3/18/05 at 9:38pm
"I am mostly sickened by DeLay and his characters using this very difficult private issue for their desired political gain. "
It sickens me, too. DeLay is a horrible human being who would probably sell hos grandmother down the river if it meant five minutes of airtime. This is a private issue. She has the right to die. Mr. DeLay, and all of the people who try to legislate their personal moral beliefs about euthanasia and whatnot, should be ashamed of themselves.
It sickens me, too. DeLay is a horrible human being who would probably sell hos grandmother down the river if it meant five minutes of airtime. This is a private issue. She has the right to die. Mr. DeLay, and all of the people who try to legislate their personal moral beliefs about euthanasia and whatnot, should be ashamed of themselves.
#28
Posted: 3/18/05 at 10:04pm
Thirdrow - I'm really intrigued by your statement, "I don't believe the husband." That, obviously, is a personal feeling on your part, that is unverifiable by proof.
My interest in this aspect has to do with the issue of mariage rights, which some of us have been greatly involved in of late. Ultimately, I've always said that marriage rights being granted or denied boiled down to the respect of individual choice. You are so willing to give the benefit of choice to her family. But the reality is, through the act of marriage, she willingly chose to have her husband take personal responsibility for her welfare should she not be able to (and Feodor, I don't think the 'woman' aspect has anything to do with it - it would work the same way if the situation were reversed.)
By over-riding the sanctity of this persons marriage contract - not allowing her husband to speak on her behalf - the government is essentially denying her the right to be responsible for her own existence. She chose to give her husband that power, and if it is over-ridden, and given to the parents - or the government, in a worse-case scenario - then the concept of individual freedom in this country is truly as dead as some of us already suspect and experience.
My interest in this aspect has to do with the issue of mariage rights, which some of us have been greatly involved in of late. Ultimately, I've always said that marriage rights being granted or denied boiled down to the respect of individual choice. You are so willing to give the benefit of choice to her family. But the reality is, through the act of marriage, she willingly chose to have her husband take personal responsibility for her welfare should she not be able to (and Feodor, I don't think the 'woman' aspect has anything to do with it - it would work the same way if the situation were reversed.)
By over-riding the sanctity of this persons marriage contract - not allowing her husband to speak on her behalf - the government is essentially denying her the right to be responsible for her own existence. She chose to give her husband that power, and if it is over-ridden, and given to the parents - or the government, in a worse-case scenario - then the concept of individual freedom in this country is truly as dead as some of us already suspect and experience.
#29
Posted: 3/18/05 at 10:16pm
DGrant what if she was in an abusive marriage? Her family suspected foul play. I don't feel the same way about this.
#30
Posted: 3/18/05 at 10:19pm
Third - of course, that's possible. But at some point you have to draw the line. Can it be proven? If this simply boils down to word against word, then I'm bothered by the husband's voice not winning out. Obviously, if there were some evidence to back either of the claims it would make this a little more black-and-white. But as I said, if it's down to word against word, then his should win.
#31
Posted: 3/18/05 at 11:02pm
I can't help feeling upset over this situation, but DGrant, I appreciate your explaining your point of view.
#32
Posted: 3/18/05 at 11:02pm
DGrant--your marriage argument is very interesting. I'd never thought about that before. Thanks for bringing that up.
Thirdrow--you are still avoiding answering my direct questions to you. Where are you getting your alleged "facts" about the case (Michael's poor actions, Terri's supposed responses). None of these have been substantiated in any way.
Thirdrow--you are still avoiding answering my direct questions to you. Where are you getting your alleged "facts" about the case (Michael's poor actions, Terri's supposed responses). None of these have been substantiated in any way.
Why do we play with fire?
Why do we run our fingers through the flame?
Why do we leave our hands on the stove, although we know we're in for some pain?
-tick...tick...BOOM!
#33
Posted: 3/18/05 at 11:13pm
Does the marriage argument hold when the spouse has a common law wife and a couple of kids? Those marriage vows were broken, a long time ago. Either the vows (for better or for worse) apply or they don't. Can't be just what's convenient at the time. Upon breaking his marriage vows, any say over his "wife's" life or death should be null and void!
scooter3843
#35
Posted: 3/18/05 at 11:45pm
http://www.saveterri.com/
If anyone ever tells you that you put too much Parmesan cheese on your pasta, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
#36
Posted: 3/19/05 at 12:50am
"Starving" to death is an inaccurate term because it frightens us. It is simply the body's way of shutting down and allowing death to come.
My mother chose to "starve" to death when the 4th course of chemotherapy for her ovarian cancer failed. The chemos were progressively more brutal and they were not stopping the cancer. First she chose to end the chemo, and then she chose to end the feeding. She was inspired by Jackie Onassis and Audrey Hepburn, both of whom chose similar final courses of action.
My mother died surrounded by family, all of whom accepted her wishes. It was a peaceful, beautiful death, one I wish for everyone, including Terry Schiavo.
Let Terry die with dignity. Don't make her into a political football.
My mother chose to "starve" to death when the 4th course of chemotherapy for her ovarian cancer failed. The chemos were progressively more brutal and they were not stopping the cancer. First she chose to end the chemo, and then she chose to end the feeding. She was inspired by Jackie Onassis and Audrey Hepburn, both of whom chose similar final courses of action.
My mother died surrounded by family, all of whom accepted her wishes. It was a peaceful, beautiful death, one I wish for everyone, including Terry Schiavo.
Let Terry die with dignity. Don't make her into a political football.
Updated On: 3/19/05 at 12:50 AM
#37
Posted: 3/19/05 at 10:09am
PJ - thanks for sharing your mother's bravery.
DGrant – I had thought about the marriage argument. Apparently Mr. DeLay picks and chooses when to defend the “sanctity” of marriage?
FS – we need not just living wills, but durable health care powers of attorney with explicit intentions. The living will and power of attorney should be given to your primary care physician.
DGrant – I had thought about the marriage argument. Apparently Mr. DeLay picks and chooses when to defend the “sanctity” of marriage?
FS – we need not just living wills, but durable health care powers of attorney with explicit intentions. The living will and power of attorney should be given to your primary care physician.
#38
Posted: 3/19/05 at 10:16am
"This has nothing to do with politics." Everything, everything, everything has to do with politics. And third, if you need any further proof, look how the right wing former fans of Clint "Go Ahead, Make My Day" Eastwood went after him for what they perceived to be a shift in his politics with Million Dollar Baby.
Twitter @NamoInExile
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#39
Posted: 3/19/05 at 11:13am
Many of my right wing friends feel Terri should die. One even told me she's "just a pile of cells." I am aware of the way Clint Eastwood was slammed by some because of the euthanasia in MDB. Too bad Terri couldn't go out like the character in MDB but I realize that would be "killing" her.
#40
Posted: 3/19/05 at 11:16am
My wife & I are getting living wills so we know this will never happen to the other
You have to see both sides of the arguement but when all is said & done she is slowly being starved to death. Hopefully the end will come sooner rather than later & that her suffering will be kept to a minimum
I would not like to be those attending her hearing her moan as the days go by knowing they can do nothing but let her suffer & to make her as "comfortable" as possible during her final days
You have to see both sides of the arguement but when all is said & done she is slowly being starved to death. Hopefully the end will come sooner rather than later & that her suffering will be kept to a minimum
I would not like to be those attending her hearing her moan as the days go by knowing they can do nothing but let her suffer & to make her as "comfortable" as possible during her final days
Poster Emeritus
#41
Posted: 3/19/05 at 11:26am
This is hitting me far too hard right now.
This weekend makes it a year since my stepfather died. He had MS since the late 70s. Many different medications and treatments were tried over the years, but MS is chronic. It exacerbated in 1994 and 1998, and by 2001, he got to the point that couldn't swallow anymore. He had to go on a feeding tube, and by late 2003, his body couldn't take all the multi tubes. He had a kidney infection that wouldn't be able to be cured...it would just keep prolonging the inevitable if we fixed it. He was already a vegetable who could no longer talk, but could move his head a little. He had a living will saying not to keep him on this sort of life support, but we still had to make the decision of when to remove the tube. They kept adjusting the "food" doses to what his body could handle (as low as a teaspoon/day), until finally in March, it had to be taken out. I'm not even going into the hell some of his family gave us even though they almost NEVER did anything over the years, and there WAS a living will that allowed my mother to make a decision. The man's body just wore out. I'm still not over this. I took care of him since I was 15. I feel more guilt than I ever thought I could even though I know it was the humane thing to do. But my mom has advanced MS too, and I'm afraid I'm going to have to do something similar down the line.
I know the situation is different, but this news story has just culminated at an awfully painful time for me, and I kinda needed to share.
This weekend makes it a year since my stepfather died. He had MS since the late 70s. Many different medications and treatments were tried over the years, but MS is chronic. It exacerbated in 1994 and 1998, and by 2001, he got to the point that couldn't swallow anymore. He had to go on a feeding tube, and by late 2003, his body couldn't take all the multi tubes. He had a kidney infection that wouldn't be able to be cured...it would just keep prolonging the inevitable if we fixed it. He was already a vegetable who could no longer talk, but could move his head a little. He had a living will saying not to keep him on this sort of life support, but we still had to make the decision of when to remove the tube. They kept adjusting the "food" doses to what his body could handle (as low as a teaspoon/day), until finally in March, it had to be taken out. I'm not even going into the hell some of his family gave us even though they almost NEVER did anything over the years, and there WAS a living will that allowed my mother to make a decision. The man's body just wore out. I'm still not over this. I took care of him since I was 15. I feel more guilt than I ever thought I could even though I know it was the humane thing to do. But my mom has advanced MS too, and I'm afraid I'm going to have to do something similar down the line.
I know the situation is different, but this news story has just culminated at an awfully painful time for me, and I kinda needed to share.
Updated On: 3/19/05 at 11:26 AM
#42
Posted: 3/19/05 at 11:27am
There is no "moaning." There is no agony. The process takes approximately two weeks. It is quite peaceful, as much an act of god's will as birth is.
It is God's will that Terry come to Him with dignity. Her parents and the politicians will burn in hell for what they are doing.
It is God's will that Terry come to Him with dignity. Her parents and the politicians will burn in hell for what they are doing.
#43
Posted: 3/19/05 at 11:31am
I feel like it's killing an innocent woman, even if she IS in a vegetative state.
#44
Posted: 3/19/05 at 11:33am
Where exactly do concepts like guilt and innocence figure into discussions like this, wyo223?
Twitter @NamoInExile
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#45
Posted: 3/19/05 at 11:34am
Having been in the position of caring for people in similar states as Terri Schiavo, my observations have been that people see what they want to see and begin ascribing thoughts, feelings, and behaviors to a person who is no longer capable of generating those higher intellectual and emotional processes. I'm not saying that I wouldn't be inclined to do that myself were it my child. However, were I ever in a similar situation, I can only hope that my husband would pull the plug, or the feeding tube...despite how other family members may feel. It would be kinder for me...and for everyone else...in the long run.
Sueleen Gay: "Here you go, Bitch, now go make some fukcing lemonade." 10/28/10
#46
Posted: 3/19/05 at 11:38am
Ah, but then people might be inclined to start a website to "save you," at which point it would be completely out of your hands.
Twitter @NamoInExile
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#47
Posted: 3/19/05 at 12:12pm
Terri Schiavo, and any issues involving euthnasia and letting life take its natural course has always interested me.
How come euthnasia is considered playing God, but the extended of life just because we can isn't? *is confused, and goes back to reading "Frankenstein"*
How come euthnasia is considered playing God, but the extended of life just because we can isn't? *is confused, and goes back to reading "Frankenstein"*
"During this performance, please feel free to let your cell phones and pagers ring willy-nilly. However, do remember that there are heavily-armed knights on stage and you might well be dragged up and impaled."
(Pre-curtain announcement at the new Broadway musical Monty Python's Spamalot)
#48
Posted: 3/19/05 at 12:54pm
Cabarethed....I missed your post earlier. Making an end of life decision on someone else's behalf is never easy, even when you know it's the right thing to do and what the person wanted. It takes great strength to do that, especially when the by-standers have a lot to say about a situation they are only peripherally a part of. I'm sorry for your situation and I hope that you can move past the guilt you describe because you did nothing wrong. For what it's worth, you have my respect.
Sueleen Gay: "Here you go, Bitch, now go make some fukcing lemonade." 10/28/10
#49
Posted: 3/19/05 at 3:48pm
Thank you iflitifloat. It's worth a lot.
I sometimes wonder if I'll ever be over this. It's such a delicate and divided issue, and you hope and wish that you never have to make that sort of decision. Seeing someone you love in that condition and having them unable to communicate with you is one of the most painful things ever. I really feel for Schiavo's family.
#50
Posted: 3/19/05 at 5:08pm
It looks like the Republican Congress and the two Bush twits are going to stick their noses into a family matter again. They should stop kissing the religious wrongs backside and mind their own business
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