‘That’s so gay’ prompts a lawsuit

[muscle23ftl]

Posted: 3/1/07 at 7:07pm

I posted this to be discussed. It was deleted, so I wanted to re-post it.

Student sent to principal’s office insists it was not a homophobic putdown




Updated: 9:41 p.m. ET Feb 28, 2007
SANTA ROSA, Calif. - When a few classmates razzed Rebekah Rice about her Mormon upbringing with questions such as, "Do you have 10 moms?" she shot back: "That's so gay."

Those three words landed the high school freshman in the principal's office and resulted in a lawsuit that raises this question: When do playground insults used every day all over America cross the line into hate speech that must be stamped out?

After Rice got a warning and a notation in her file, her parents sued, claiming officials at Santa Rosa's Maria Carillo High violated their daughter's First Amendment rights when they disciplined her for uttering a phrase "which enjoys widespread currency in youth culture," according to court documents.

Testifying last week about the 2002 incident, Rice, now 18, said that when she uttered those words, she was not referring to anyone's sexual orientation. She said the phrase meant: "That's so stupid, that's so silly, that's so dumb."

But school officials say they took a strict stand against the putdown after two boys were paid to beat up a gay student the year before.

"The district has a statutory duty to protect gay students from harassment," the district's lawyers argued in a legal brief. "In furtherance of this goal, prohibition of the phrase 'That's so gay' ... was a reasonable regulation."

Superior Court Judge Elaine Rushing plans to issue a ruling in the non-jury trial after final written arguments are submitted in April. Her gag order prevents the two sides from discussing the case.

A confusing set of terms
Derogatory terms for homosexuality have long been used as insults. But the landscape has become confusing in recent years as minority groups have tried to reclaim terms like "queer," "ghetto" and the n-word.

In recent years, gay rights advocates and educators have tried teaching students that it is hurtful to use the word "gay" as an all-purpose term for something disagreeable. At Berkeley High School, a gay student club passed out buttons with the words "That's so gay" crossed out to get their classmates to stop using them.

Rick Ayers, a retired teacher who helped compile and publish the "Berkeley High School Slang Dictionary," a compendium of trendy teen talk circa 2001, said educating students about offensive language is preferable to policing their speech.

"I wouldn't be surprised if this girl didn't even know the origin of that term," he said. "The kids who get caught saying it will claim it's been decontextualized, but others will say, `No, you know what that means.' It's quite talked about."

Rice's parents, Elden and Katherine Rice, also claim the public high school employed a double-standard because, they say, administrators never sought to shield Rebekah from teasing based on Mormon stereotypes.

Daughter singled out, parents say
In addition, the Rices say their daughter was singled out because of the family's conservative views on sexuality. They are seeking unspecified damages and want the disciplinary notation expunged from Rebekah's school record.

Eliza Byard, deputy executive director of the New York-based Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network, said nearly nine out of 10 gay students her organization surveyed in 2005 reported hearing "That's so gay" or "You're so gay" frequently.

"It bothers them a lot," Byard said. "As odd or funny as the phrase sounds, imagine what it feels like to be in a setting where you consistently hear it used to describe something undesirable or stupid, and it also refers to you."

She said it is OK to discipline students for using the phrase after efforts have been made to educate them.

"The job of a school is to deal proactively and consistently with all forms of bullying, name-calling and harassment," she said.

Jordan Lorence, an attorney with the Alliance Defense Fund, a Christian legal organization, agreed "That's so gay" carries a negative meaning and said he would not want his children to say it. But he said formal discipline is not the answer.

"Reasonable people should say, `Let's put a stop to this kind of search-and-destroy mission by school officials for everything that is politically incorrect,'" he said.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 3/1/07 at 7:13pm

"Reasonable people should say, `Let's put a stop to this kind of search-and-destroy mission by school officials for everything that is politically incorrect,'" he said.


I bet if someone got in trouble for saying something like, "That is such a black comment" (or whatever) no one would be saying a thing about punishing that kid. Double standards . . . gotta love it!

Updated On: 3/1/07 at 07:13 PM

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 3/1/07 at 7:20pm

i still say suing over this is gay.

oh, and sorry about getting the last one deleted, muscle.

[Liverpool]

Posted: 3/1/07 at 7:21pm

being sorry is gay papa Updated On: 3/1/07 at 07:21 PM

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 3/1/07 at 7:23pm

Yes, I think suing is stupid.

[singinsilly]

Posted: 3/1/07 at 8:43pm

I can argue both sides, on one hand I know that it is not at all intended as a slur against homosexuals (at least by most), but on the other I refuse to use it because I find it offensive to those who are gay. So I don't know whether it is right to sue or not.

[Trekkie2]

Posted: 3/1/07 at 9:06pm

God, you are all such a bunch of homosexual life-forms!

[actor]

Posted: 3/1/07 at 10:04pm

I love how the mother says that her child wasn't putting down gays and that her daughter was saying "That's so [insert put down word]". That's so gay is a put-down, and should be stopped, but I think a lawsuit violates the freedom of speech

[Wanna Be A Foster]

Posted: 3/1/07 at 11:21pm

muscle, maybe it would not have been deleted if you would have provided a link to the entire article that you illegally copied and pasted into the thread.

Unless you wrote the article for your own publication, seeing how you didn't even attach the author's name nor the publication from which you plagiarized.

Updated On: 3/1/07 at 11:21 PM

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 3/1/07 at 11:26pm

Oh, God - get over yourself.

Why do you think you are the unofficial board moderator? Christ.

[Liverpool]

Posted: 3/1/07 at 11:27pm

actaully, foster, it got deleted cause Papa and I were going on about Jews and Blacks, and, well, obviously gays.

[cheezedoodle]

Posted: 3/1/07 at 11:27pm

They discussed this on The View today - and it was really fascinating. Ironically - Rosie was with her kids last weekend having pizza and some girl at a table next to theirs said to another girl at her table "Geez - you are such a Lez!" - so Rosie turned and asked - "And is THAT a bad thing?". I guess it spurred an hour long conversation between the two tables - and I bet those kids were like - "Of all the tables to be sitting next to...".

I don't particularly find it offensive - pretty minor in my book. Being called Faggot is bigger to me - but I understand others opinions in the offense. I also think it was rude and offensive to ask the girl if she has 10 mothers because she is Mormon. So in my opinion - they were all wrong.

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 3/1/07 at 11:30pm

You don't think "That's so gay" is offensive?

I am not at all easily offended, and it offends me.

"That's so gay" means "That's so stupid." Equating GAY with STUPID, or even worse. How is that NOT offensive?

If people were going around saying "That's so black" it would be a national crisis and you bet people would be offended.

[cheezedoodle]

Posted: 3/1/07 at 11:34pm

Speaking of getting over yourself - I said it's not as offensive to me as something else - but I don't discredit anyone else's discomfort in the expression. That includes you. Of course - it's a pretty juvenile attitude to come up with the phrase in the first place - and says a lot about "The next generation".

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 3/1/07 at 11:35pm

Agreed, Munk. I find "that's so gay" really offensive. At my school, a lot of poeple say it all the time, and it dirves me up the wall. It makes me want slap them.

[Raviolisun]

Posted: 3/1/07 at 11:36pm

I am not at all easily offended, and it offends me.

Same here.

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 3/1/07 at 11:37pm

What about the students making fun of HER?

[cheezedoodle]

Posted: 3/1/07 at 11:39pm

I looked back at this thread - and actually realized something I had posted on the original thread this afternoon. I overhead a co-worker use the phrase on the phone to someone he was talking to - and I mentioned that it was insensitive - and should not be used. Shortly after the incident - two employees were fired for using the phrase - (not the guy I spoke to) because under the state law of California - it is considered a violation of HR codes, contributing to a hostile workplace.

Updated On: 3/1/07 at 11:39 PM

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 3/1/07 at 11:39pm

"Speaking of getting over yourself - I said it's not as offensive to me as something else - but I don't discredit anyone else's discomfort in the expression. That includes you. Of course - it's a pretty juvenile attitude to come up with the phrase in the first place - and says a lot about "The next generation"."

Huh? I was just posting my reaction. What does that have to do with "getting over myself?" I never thought you were discrediting anyone's opinion. Why are you getting so defensive?

[Liverpool]

Posted: 3/1/07 at 11:39pm

<-------------says thats so gay

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 3/1/07 at 11:41pm

<-----------------says your so ignorant

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 3/1/07 at 11:41pm

Can we use it if something actually is so gay?

Like, "Hey, man. Did you see that Caly Aiken Concert last night? So gay."

Or is that offensive? Just want to make sure...

Also, is it offensive to say "that's so Raven?" Updated On: 3/1/07 at 11:41 PM

[cheezedoodle]

Posted: 3/1/07 at 11:43pm

Oh - not at all defensive - sorry about that. I was merely pointing out what I meant by saying what I did - and you told someone else to get over themselves.
We just had a big Earthquake and I feel kind of sick - I need to sign off...

Updated On: 3/1/07 at 11:43 PM

[Liverpool]

Posted: 3/1/07 at 11:47pm

<-----------is so gay



I also call people fags, and do say thats so black as well.



Call me ignorant all you want. My response would be that you're a thin skinned ****. Updated On: 3/1/07 at 11:47 PM

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 3/2/07 at 12:10am

I was kidding, as I assumed you were.