The "It's a free country" Argument

[SorryGrateful]

Posted: 5/3/07 at 10:38am

Has anyone else noticed that the only people who use this argument are usually a--holes?

Yesterday on the El, two 17-year old girls (one with a year old baby. Congrats!) got on and started to play their ringtones really loudly and sing along to them. A woman across the way asked if they would please turn those down and they said, "Uh-uh." A minute later, I got fed up and said, "That's really loud. Will you please turn that down?" They told me no, to shut the eff up, and that if I didn't like it I could move to another car. Then they started in with the "It's a free country" thing. (They even moved to the seat directly perpendicular to me so that they could play their ringtones loudly right in my face.)

But, you see, the thing is it's not really a free country. There are all sorts of things we can't do, i.e. have sex with animals, kill people, smoke in restaurants, walk around in public naked, beat children, drive as fast as we want, etc. I tried to explain that to these girls, but, of course, they didn't listen.

I guess the point is that it's our right as Americans to be a--holes according to so many people.

Any thoughts?

Posted: 5/3/07 at 10:45am

Well it is a "Free Country" but we live in a society which depends on the cooperation and consideration of all it's residents to succeed. Probably an El Train is not the best place to teach a pair of smart-ass 17 year olds the rights and responsibilities that their teachers and parents have not.

But I would have been tempted to scream as loudly as I could directly into their ears and see how they liked living in a free country.
Updated On: 5/3/07 at 10:45 AM

[RobbO]

Posted: 5/3/07 at 10:45am

i hate people.

"it's a free country" is just about as bad as the "there are lot more important things to worry about in the world than..." argument people use to diminish anything that is not the current tragedy du jour.

[SorryGrateful]

Posted: 5/3/07 at 10:51am

RobbO, agreed. There are days when it seems the only logical choice is to become a hermit.

And, Joe, I would have loved to do that, but it's going to take a few more years in a city for me to grow the cajones to do something like that.

I just get frustrated because people use this argument for any little thing when they don't really understand what they're saying. And the worst part is that the people who do use the argument will never listen. They are right, so shut up. Maybe it's too much to expect people to be accountable for their actions without falling back on their "rights" as American a--holes.

I have a feeling the Phelpses have used the same argument as well as a certain poster slithering around this board.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 5/3/07 at 10:52am

We cant beat children?!
Oops.

[SorryGrateful]

Posted: 5/3/07 at 10:56am

Bad doodle! Bad!

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 5/3/07 at 11:04am

Sing show tunes as loudly as possible...not "cool" ones like "One Night Only" or "One Song Glory" or "Purple Summer" but embarrassing ones like "We had a real nice clambake", "Adelaides Lament" or "Shoopoopy"

[RobbO]

Posted: 5/3/07 at 11:07am

sg, i hate that the people who are wrong think they are right. when i force myself to go to the movies these days and deal with the awfully rude crowds, i inevitably ask someone to please stop talking or shut off their phone, etc. when i do, i get rude looks and one guy even had the never to yell at me, "relax, it's just a movie!"

wtf does that mean?

[SorryGrateful]

Posted: 5/3/07 at 11:10am

I don't even go to the movies anymore unless it's an early show on the weekends because there are a lot less people.

I can handle a lot of stuff, but rudeness is not one of them. I sometimes try to tell people that they're not in their homes, but they always manage to talk over me.

Le sigh...

[Calvin]

Posted: 5/3/07 at 11:11am

Was the movie "Relax, It's Just Sex"?

I've gotten much more vocal in my complaining in my old age. It's very cathartic, actually.

[SorryGrateful]

Posted: 5/3/07 at 11:17am

Because you're so old, Calvin.

Ever since moving to the city over two years ago, I've become much more assertive in calling people out on their behavior. But more often than not I get the "But it's a free country!" self-righteous mantra.

I myself try to be considerate of others. No, I don't tiptoe around, but I try not to blare my music at home so loudly that it bothers me neighbours. I talk softly if at all on my phone when I'm in public. I don't clip my nails on the El. *shiver* I don't get why it's so hard to be considerate of other people.

Oh wait, it's because it's their right. Duh.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 5/3/07 at 11:19am

Okay, I changed my mind...I think when you are in these situations you should sing, ala Paul Lynde:
Kids!
I don't know what's wrong with these kids today!
Kids!
Who can understand anything they say?
Kids!

[Calvin]

Posted: 5/3/07 at 11:20am

As if on cue, someone in my office is walking around behind me and having a very loud and very inappropriate cell phone conversation.

[RobbO]

Posted: 5/3/07 at 11:20am

calvin, i don't think anyone paid to see "relax, it's just sex" in the movies.

[Calvin]

Posted: 5/3/07 at 11:23am

<----He did.

It was in my early coming out days. I saw every gay-themed movie that made it to Houston.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 5/3/07 at 11:24am

Calvin...whenever someone is having a cell conversation I am being forced to listen to, (including on a 2 hour train ride on Sunday when I listed to a NON stop convo through the music on my MP3 player!) I just stare at the person and listen, like I was in on it. When you get the obvious glare or comment, just say "Oh, I thought you wanted me to listen to this...why else would you talk so loudly and so closely to me?! Hmmm? OH, and by the way? He's just not that into you."

[Calvin]

Posted: 5/3/07 at 11:26am

See, on a train, I just think the person as -- as Ann Landers would have said -- a clod. But in an office? These are people who you see every day.

[Pip]

Posted: 5/3/07 at 11:27am

Doodle, that's great! I'm going to try that...

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 5/3/07 at 11:28am

Unfortunately Pip, it usually only amuses those around you...it rarely changes the behaviour...

[RobbO]

Posted: 5/3/07 at 11:28am

calvin, i went through that phase when i moved to new hope. i would rent every gay movie they had at the local video store. (oh, videos are like DVDs only bigger and square.)

i think it's one of the five stages of grief. i'll let you decide which one.

Posted: 5/3/07 at 11:30am

I do NOT hesitate to join in on loud cell phone conversations: A couple "What did he say??"'s will usually get the talker muted.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 5/3/07 at 11:31am

"Every Gay-themed Movie... That Made it to Houston"

I think that's a great title for a gay-themed movie!

[SorryGrateful]

Posted: 5/3/07 at 11:38am

doodle and Joe, I love it. I'm going to use one of those next time.

This is an honest question and not a rhetorical whine:

Why aren't so many people aware of the people surrounding them and unaware that they are being discourteous?

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 5/3/07 at 11:40am

that's one for the ages, sg...a long time ago my brother told me that we were cursed to have been raised with good manners (referring to me as being extreme) and our whole lives we'd be annoyed by those who werent up to those standards.

It's the only time I remember him being right.

[RobbO]

Posted: 5/3/07 at 11:42am

i think your first post hit the nail on the head, sg. the people doing the behavior do not think they're being rude, or offensive, or whatever. so why should they stop doing something that is not "wrong" in their mind.

our entire culture needs to be put in timeout. or sit on the naughty mat. or a good old-fashioned wooden spoon to the rear with an extended handle and flat surface for better coverage like i got.

it's all about "me" now.