The American Revolution

[Highland Guy]

Posted: 11/10/25 at 1:03pm

Looking forward to another exceptional production from Ken Burns.

Our founders would be appalled by what the MAGAts have done to our beautiful country.  But I remain confident that Democracy as it was intended will be restored soon!

FIGHT  THE  GOOD  FIGHT  !!

https://www.pbs.org/kenburns/the-american-revolution

Updated On: 11/10/25 at 01:03 PM

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/10/25 at 1:11pm

Hm. I'm not convinced our founding fathers would be appalled. The US has only been a democracy since 1965, long after those slavekeeping misogynists had passed.

Updated On: 11/10/25 at 01:11 PM

[John Adams]

Posted: 11/11/25 at 7:38am

Updated On: 11/20/25 at 07:38 AM

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/11/25 at 4:29pm

That's a valid perspective, but up to 1920 half the population did NOT have the freedom to evolve. I don't think that meets the "democracy" threshold.

[kdogg36]

Posted: 11/11/25 at 9:38pm

John Adams said: "If the US had not always been a democracy, there would have been no opportunity for the Emancipation Proclamation (1863) to exist, which opened the door for all the subsequent dominoes to fall into place that eventually provided opportunity for the Civil Rights movement to exist, which in turn... etc."

A decent society would have just treated everyone equally from the beginning. No points should be given for deciding not to treat human beings as property any longer. That should have been the default position all along.

[John Adams]

Posted: 11/12/25 at 8:51am

Updated On: 11/20/25 at 08:51 AM

[John Adams]

Posted: 11/12/25 at 10:33am

Updated On: 11/20/25 at 10:33 AM

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/12/25 at 12:26pm

"Democracy allows for ALL opinions/beliefs, no matter if they be "right" or "wrong". Democracy is government by the people. "
 

Exactly! Democracy is NOT government by the men.

In any case, the OP says our founders would be appalled by what's happening now. Who cares? I'm pretty appalled by what happened THEN. These people were not saints, I think it is pretty ridiculous that we still put so much stock into what theiir intentions were. Gun rights etc. They are distant figures from the past, long since outdated.

[Highland Guy]

Posted: 11/12/25 at 2:38pm

Very excited to see this documentary about the founding of our Democracy!  

 

 

[John Adams]

Posted: 11/12/25 at 5:04pm

Updated On: 11/20/25 at 05:04 PM

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/12/25 at 5:51pm

I'm sorry to madden you. Personally, the glorification of Uncle Sam is what I find maddening. Also, I did not alter my stance in any way. Look back and you will see that I specifically mentioned 1920 and 1965 as the true beginnings of democracy. Important turning points at the very least.

If we disagree, that's fine - such is democracy! We are lucky.

P.S. It is also my country.

Updated On: 11/12/25 at 05:51 PM

[John Adams]

Posted: 11/14/25 at 1:04am

Updated On: 11/20/25 at 01:04 AM

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/14/25 at 11:36am

No, John Adams, it seems YOU have no clue as to what democracy is. Limiting the vote to white men of privilege is totally NOT in the spirit of democracy, and I think any rational person can acknowledge this.

I find your tone to be mean and condescending.

Updated On: 11/14/25 at 11:36 AM

[kdogg36]

Posted: 11/14/25 at 11:42am

John Adams said: "You have no clue what democracy is."

I think what Jay is saying is that a putative democracy that severely restricts who can vote, as the US did for many decades, doesn't count as much of a democracy at all, and I find it hard to disagree with that opinion.

I do appreciate that you're carefully trying to defend democracy itself, and not a particular society (say, slavery-era America) that claimed to be a democracy. Sloppiness about that on my part is why we disagreed about how much credit to give anyone for ending the abomination of slavery in the US. If I squint, I can just about see that it's possible to condemn a society that tolerated slavery for so long (and give no props at all for finally ending it), while giving credit to democracy (however limited at the time) for providing the path to end it.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/14/25 at 11:46am

Also a stretch to give "democracy" the sole credit, when changing things took literally the blood, sweat, and tears of many lives.

[John Adams]

Posted: 11/14/25 at 1:33pm

Updated On: 11/20/25 at 01:33 PM

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/14/25 at 7:36pm

If a country today had such restrictions, would it be considered a democracy?

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/14/25 at 7:43pm

"democracy"

From the Ancient Greek…

dêmos…. "The people"

krátos… "Power"

Women are people.

[John Adams]

Posted: 11/15/25 at 10:59am

Updated On: 11/20/25 at 10:59 AM

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/15/25 at 12:23pm

I think we also owe a debt of gratitude to the slaves who propped up these men and enabled their power to begin with.

To quote Michelle Obama when she lived in The White House….

"I wake up every day in a house built by slaves"

Literally true, but also a metaphor for the whole American experiment.

[John Adams]

Posted: 11/15/25 at 2:00pm

Updated On: 11/20/25 at 02:00 PM

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/15/25 at 4:39pm

Perhaps you are misunderstanding me? Again.

The slaves were the ones who put in the hard labor, which the elite then profited off. Financially, socially, politically etc.

I don't think this should be a controversial opinion.

 

[MysteriousLady]

Posted: 11/15/25 at 5:33pm

Jay Lerner-Z said: "Perhaps you are misunderstanding me? Again.

The slaves were the ones who put in the hard labor, which the elite then profited off. Financially, socially, politically etc.

I don't think this should be a controversial opinion.

"

You were perfectly clear. Nothing controversial about what you said. 

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/16/25 at 12:01am

Thank you.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 11/16/25 at 12:16am

John Adams said: "Jay Lerner-Z said: "I think we also owe a debt of gratitude to the slaves who propped up these men and enabled their power to begin with."

wow.

Slaves were "enablers" who "propped up" their slave masters?

...just... wow."

Yeah, not the brightest bulb. He also said goodbye twice to BWW for the year but keeps coming back to make non-sensical, dumb statements or to prove us "wrong". He doesn't know we actually don't care about anything he has to say. JayZ is a hypocrite, he lectures people who use airplanes for traveling, he judges people for liking things he does not, tells everyone they are simply wrong instead of considering their opinion, and they are just annoying AF. He has proudly made my block list, which only the worst of the worst are on. Congrats, JayZ! I never have to see your asinine statements again nor will I have see your responses to mine. Keep draggin' him tho so he can play victim like always. He is SO MUCH like Trump it's crazy 



 

Updated On: 11/16/25 at 12:16 AM