The End of Brokeback Mountain (Massive Spoilers)- Page 4

[Auggie27]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 5:59pm

I'm on board with luvtheemcee. But I think it's a tribute to this film's nuance that we're so engaged in this thread. The movie, as has been reported here, has an even bigger impact in retrospect. It is haunting, and how many are these days?

[broadway86]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 9:05pm

But if Jack did die the way Ennis imagined him dying, how would he know that? All he has to go by is what she's telling him, no?

[roquat]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 9:21pm

I think he just knows instinctively. It's not unlike the moment earlier in the movie, when he leaves Jack at Brokeback Mountain for the last time--there's a flashback insert of a moment they shared their first summer together, when Ennis embraced Jack for the first time. It's like a sample of the quiet domestic life they wanted and could have had together, but they missed their chance.

[Tir Na Nog]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 10:57pm

You guys need to read the story! Jack DOES die exactly the way his wife says he does. Ennis was emotionally scared by what he saw when he was young and while she explains Jack's death he see's what he believes happened.

As for Ennis touching the postcard. He does that because he realizes he will be alone forever. He was not like Jack (mexican prostitutes). It was Jack and Jack only.

[JbaraFan1]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 10:59pm

"Oh, stupid question: where is there a full list of release dates? The official website only has where it's showing as of 12/16, but I want to know when I can see it in my annoying little suburb of a town." - luvtheEmcee

What about fandango.com? Does that help you? Just a suggestion.

[broadway86]

Posted: 12/23/05 at 11:15pm

Tir Na Nog-

I agree with the first part.

As for Ennis touching the postcard. He does that because he realizes he will be alone forever.

In the finale, when Ennis finally decides to go to his daughter's wedding, I think he sees that as a step in the right direction. I'm an optimist, so I'd like to think that Ennis eventually finds happiness.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 12/24/05 at 1:05pm

I agree, broadway86; losing Jack showed him a lot, and made him regret a lot, IMO. By giving up work to go to the wedding, I think he's absolutely taking a step in the right direction, and spending time with people who are important to him, like he didn't do enough of with Jack.

jbarafan, I had tried that and didn't get anything local, but I'll try again -- thanks. I think it comes out here tomorrow.

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 12/24/05 at 1:40pm

You guys need to read the story! Jack DOES die exactly the way his wife says he does.

Really, where? Proulx doesn't offer anything concrete either, but I'll concede that her text swings more in that direction than the film does.

[roquat]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 1:17am

I think it's probable that Lurlene didn't know about the postcard and didn't really know anything about Ennis (she tells Ennis on the phone that she wasn't even sure how to pronounce his name--if she was lying, it was a rather silly and unnecessary lie.) I also didn't get that she shows any bitterness or malice to him. She's numb and detached, but perfectly polite. And she tells him to visit Jack's folks.

I think she feels guilty about letting her marriage dry up and she's trying to make amends by getting someone, anyone, to scatter Jack's ashes on Brokeback Mountain as he had wished. I personally loved Anne Hathaway in the role--like Michelle Williams, she started out a vibrant, happy young woman and had the life sucked out of her by the false, dead marriage she got trapped in.

[broadway86]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 1:29am

By giving up work to go to the wedding, I think he's absolutely taking a step in the right direction, and spending time with people who are important to him, like he didn't do enough of with Jack.

I think you're absolutely right, Emcee.

As for Lureen... I don't think she was being bitter or cold on the phone purposefully. As someone else pointed out, I think her emotional involvement to Jack had been numbed by their admittedly false-hearted relationship. She definitely knew that the marriage was, for all intents and purposes, bogus. And I still think she was telling Ennis the truth about Jack's death, and Ennis simply imagined something worse, corresponding with his own experiences. Updated On: 12/25/05 at 01:29 AM

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 1:55am

I just caught something on CNN about Oscar predictions, and in the little blurb about Brokeback, they showed a montage that piled up, punctuated by quick fades, some of the most physically intense moments in the movie: Ennis' physical reaction after leaving Brokeback, that last hug by the water, and Ennis punching Jack so he falls down on the ground.

I just sat there glued to my TV, to re-live the emotion of those moments. Literally like an inch from my screen, not blinking. Knots in my stomach. Wanting to cry.

I can think of *very* few movies that have ever stuck with me like this one has. It's affected me so, so much.

I was about to go to sleep, but I logged back on to share. I guess. I don't know.

Updated On: 12/25/05 at 01:55 AM

[vbplayer]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 2:42am

I thought that Ennis was so devastated from his earlier exposure to a hate crime that he just imagined that it also happened to Jack.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`


Emcee, I have to agree. I saw Brokeback Mountain about a week ago. I still think about it, and will for a long time.
The LAST thing I observed, was one of the characters "hairstyles". I found nothing in this film that made me "laugh my ass off". It was far from funny.

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 7:39am

Lureen had Jack killed. She knew he was gay.
Updated On: 12/25/05 at 07:39 AM

[broadway86]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 8:26am

Yank, that is so... interesting. Is that what you really think?

The LAST thing I observed, was one of the characters "hairstyles". I found nothing in this film that made me "laugh my ass off". It was far from funny.

THANK YOU!

Emcee-

I feel the exact same way. Every time I see a trailer or a TV spot, I get chills. I can't think of ANY other film that has touched me like that one. Updated On: 12/25/05 at 08:26 AM

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 8:53am

It's as viable a theory as anything else I've heard....the movie doesn't make mention of her father being dead when Jack dies, so, for all we know, she could have had her father's cronies kill him. The father was all too happy to do so, after the Thanksgiving fight.

[broadway86]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 9:16am

It's as viable a theory as anything else I've heard....

No, no. I wasn't trying to be a smartass. I really think that's interesting.

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 9:33am

I wasn't suggesting you were a smartass....I'm glad you like my theory. It was the only possible way I could see it happen.

[broadway86]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 10:16am

I wasn't suggesting you were a smartass....

Oh. Never mind. :) That's why I hate talking online. No one knows what you mean. Updated On: 12/25/05 at 10:16 AM

Posted: 12/25/05 at 3:37pm

It's also possible that Ennis pictured Jack's death the way he did to distance himself from his feelings for Jack. "He got killed for being gay and if we were together it would have happened to us, so I made the right choice in not fully commiting" Whereas, if it really was an accident, then Ennis missed out on true happiness and a life he was desperate to lead, but couldn't. And that is a regret hard to live with.

Also, someone earlier here said
"It also parallels Jack's life -- he lived uncertain of who he was, he died and we are uncertain of how he died."

Jack knew EXACTLY who he was, and what he wanted..so much so that he was going to fulfill his dream of homo-homesteading with the new guy, since ENNIS wasn't able to be his true self. Another arguement for it being a hate crime, otherwise it would be such a frivilous storytelling device to have him die accidentally the way he did.

[roquat]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 10:14pm

I received the short story for Christmas and read it through this morning. I don't think I've ever heard of a better literary adaptation. All the additions the screenwriters made (especially the backstories and arcs for the female characters) enrich the story instead of intruding on it; the story and the film seem to complete each other.

As for the ending--in the story, Ennis does indeed "picture" Jack's death as a hate crime while Lurlene is describing it as an accident. But, later on, he decides FOR CERTAIN that it really was a hate crime. This happens when he visits the Twists after Jack's death, and Mr. Twist talks (with suppressed fury) about the fantasy Jack always had that Ennis (and later the ranch foreman) would come and live with him on the ranch. (He also complains aboutg Jack thinking himself "too good" to be buried in the family plot.)

There's an episode not described in the film involving a childhood memory of Jack's--at the age of nine, he accidentally sprayed the toilet seat while urinating. His father caught him, beat him savagely, urinated all over HIM (Jack) and forced him to clean up the mess. Ennis remembers Jack telling him this while Mr. Twist is talking, and he says to himself, "So, it really had been the tire iron" (i.e., Jack was murdered).

I guess we're supposed to think that Mr. Twist was even more of a monster than Ennis' father was, and that he himself had a hand in his son's killing.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 11:33pm

"There's an episode not described in the film involving a childhood memory of Jack's--at the age of nine, he accidentally sprayed the toilet seat while urinating. His father caught him, beat him savagely, urinated all over HIM (Jack) and forced him to clean up the mess."

Now THAT is hot. And to think some people disagreed with me when I said the Ang Lee makes fundamentally conservative films.

[Luscious]

Posted: 12/26/05 at 10:14am

My take on Lureen's phone call with Ennis is that she's relaying the story of Jack's death almost my rote, the way someone who has told the story too many times to count might relay it. Hathaway's performance in the scene is outstanding. She manages to convey exhaustion, anger, disappointment and sadness in a scene that lasts less than two minutes.

Updated On: 12/26/05 at 10:14 AM

[DayDreamer]

Posted: 12/26/05 at 10:35am

This has been very interesting to read. I for one thought that that Lurleen was covering up the story, and the images were showing us what really happened, not necessarily what Ennis was thinking.

Now of course I'll have to see the movie again...

Posted: 12/26/05 at 11:18am

Like life, somethings remain unanswered and the truth is never made clear.

"The huge sadness of the northern plaines rolled down on him. He didn't know which way it was, the tire iron or a real accident..."

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/26/05 at 1:51pm

Does anybody know if the golden showers SM scene will be included on the DVD release? Thanking you in advance.