The End of Brokeback Mountain (Massive Spoilers)

[RobbO]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 8:42am

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i know the ending of brokeback mountain is supposed to be ambiguous but since many on this board have now seen the movie, i was wondering your thoughts.

DON'T READ ANY FURTHER IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO KNOW THE ENDING

from a review on boxofficeguru: "Then there was the heartbreaking ending. Ennis and Jack see each other a couple of times a year and go fishing in the mountains. They send postcards back and forth to each other and one day, Ennis sends a postcard that comes back to him marked, deceased. Jack was killed, presumably by a bunch of guys who found out what he was, even though his wife told a different story."

i know jack's wife was acting very odd and matter-of-fact when she relayed the news of his death to ennis over the phone but, even so, i thought the scene of jack being beat was just ennis' imagination. since it was so similar to the story ennis told earlier in the movie, i figured he believed that was the real way jack died.

i've read the short story as well, but no additional clues are in there to make it less ambiguous.

what do you think?

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[bwaysinger]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 8:48am

I think the wife knows. I think she tells it to protect her husband in that little southern pink elephant way of, "If you don't believe it's true, then it's not."

[RobbO]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 8:54am

but do you think his death happened the way it was shown on film?

[SonofMammaMiaSam]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 8:57am

I think he ran off to NYC and "found himself" in the village. After several years he moved to New Hope and performs in drag as Pumpkin at the Raven.

Updated On: 12/20/05 at 08:57 AM

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 9:00am

Oh, Somms.

Yeah, RobbO, I actually DO think it happens that way. Mainly because of the correlation to those two guys he saw as a boy but also because it's likely that, too, was tossed about the town as some other sort of accident. So, when he hears Lurleen (oh, lord, is that her name?) talking about a "tire" accident, he immediately knows it's a cover-up.

[RobbO]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 9:03am

isn't it a little coincidential though that 30 years after ennis saw the old man's body in the ditch that jack would be killed in such a similar manner, or is that the point?

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 9:06am

Yes, of course it is. Although I think the ambiguity of what actually happened is also the point.
Clearly, Ennis is afraid it's happening.
When they last meet, he asks Jack if he, too, walks outside and is stared at as if everyone knows.
Part of what makes Ennis fearful of being with Jack is that possibility of others knowing and doing something about it, so it could be his own paranoia.

[RobbO]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 9:13am

okay. then what does "i swear" mean?

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 9:16am

Hmm. I took it to mean that, in a way, Jack won. Ennis is in love with him and now he regrets not taking Jack up on his wacky ideas that always elicited one of those "Jack ****ing Twist" responses.

[RobbO]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 9:26am

i thought it was more literal since he was touching the postcard of brokeback mountain when he said it, like "i swear...one day i will scatter your ashes at brokeback like you asked."

[VinnieMeatball]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 9:37am

SOMMS, come on now! We all know RobbO performs as Pumpkin at the Raven. Your theory could never be true...Jeez!

[SonofMammaMiaSam]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 9:41am

Is he wearing stilts under those fabulous beaded gowns?

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 9:46am

I was talking to some people about this right after I saw the movie, and my reaction was of course that it's supposed to be ambiguous, but to take that one step further, that maybe just like Ennis doesn't know for sure what happened, we're not even supposed to know for sure. I think that's almost more heartbreaking; not only is he not allowed to carry out Jack's wishes and spread his ashes over the mountain, but he will only have that fear about his death -- he will never know what really happened to Jack. Emotionally, I think that's more upsetting than for us to know that he has the truth.

That said, I think that Ennis, even though he's told by Jack's wife what happened, sort of assumes that what he saw in his imagination is true. I also think we're supposed to assume that's probably what happened, which is *why* Ennis tells Jack that story. Of course, I suppose that's the reason why people are saying that this is a gay movie for straight audiences -- that's the part (paired with Jack's father's refusal) that's going to tell people that this prevention of people being together needs to stop.

So, yeah, in short, I don't think we're supposed to know what *does* happen, but I think it's about what we're supposed to assume happens, which is that Jack was in fact brutally beaten to death.

Updated On: 12/20/05 at 09:46 AM

[touchmeinthemorning]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 10:00am

I think it is intentionally vague -- to let us in Ennis' mindset. We don't know if we can trust a jealous wife to give the detailed truth -- especially in this setting. So, Ennis could very well be right. We'll never know. The point is the uncertainty, not the truth of what happened...which we can never know for sure (and must always question).

It also parallels Jack's life -- he lived uncertain of who he was, he died and we are uncertain of how he died. It's a wonderful poetic device (as well as being true to the time).

Updated On: 12/20/05 at 10:00 AM

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 10:01am

Could "I swear" finally be Ennis' way of saying "I love you?" He never does say that.

[RobbO]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 10:06am

thanks emcee, i really like what you had to say in your first part of your first post. and, touchme, you bring up some interesting points.

[VinnieMeatball]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 10:07am

Stilts AND stiletos, SOMMS!

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 10:07am

Thank you. I really want to see it again; I saw it on Sunday and have not stopped thinking about it. It broke my heart.

[RobbO]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 10:13am

the more i think about the movie the more i want to see it again. i'm listening to the soundtrack now and it brings back several moments of the film. when i first saw the film on saturday, i felt numb and unemotional - which is odd for me. but it really is haunting and creates lots of debate and discussion.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 10:25am

I felt really numb, too. I just sat there and didn't really say anything for a few minutes. I didn't cry until I got home, and started to tell a few good friends what I was feeling, but it took me the whole ride home to figure out how to articulate that. I randomly hid my initial thoughts in some other thread that has nothing to do with the movie because I figured nobody would want to hear it, but I don't think any of them have changed, per se. I just feel a little more solidified in my feelings, I guess. I knew the ending before I saw it, so I figured "oh, it'll be okay," and I can't remember ever feeling that sad during a movie before.

I guess I still do feel sort of numb. And sad... very sad. I think I was a little bit angry, too. I keep replaying some of it in my head, which only upsets me more, but like you said, it makes me want to go back and see it again. Unfortunately it isn't playing yet where I live, and I have to leave NYC tomorrow.

Updated On: 12/20/05 at 10:25 AM

[RobbO]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 10:28am

well, if it is any consolation, the studio is releasing the movie faster and wider than planned. so, maybe it will be in your area sooner rather than later.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 10:31am

That's good news; I'll check!

Updated On: 12/20/05 at 10:31 AM

[ShbrtAlley44]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 10:38am

I took "I swear" to mean that Ennis was swearing he would always love Jack. As far as Jack's death, I thought originally it happened the way Lureen was telling it, and the beating took place in Ennis' imagination, sparked by the other man's death, but it is possible that she was lying to cover up the truth. I'm not sure, though, as I think there would be a little more emotion on her part had he been beaten to death - the way she was talking, she seemed to accept that nothing could have been done about it, suggesting that it was in fact an accident.

[RobbO]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 10:41am

i think the way she said it was so matter-of-fact and rehearsed with no emotion or inflection, that we can only assume she is covering something up. and who knows how long it has been since his death? a few weeks, months?

even if their marriage could be done "over the phone" as jack says, i would think she would feel more for his loss so it makes sense if she's not being entirely honest about how he died.

i still don't know, though, if that means that he died like the flashback showed.

[ShbrtAlley44]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 10:43am

That's true. I hope it's not the case, though. It's funny about this movie... I feel like these were two real people. I've never gotten that before.