The End of Brokeback Mountain (Massive Spoilers)- Page 5

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/26/05 at 1:51pm

Does anybody know if the golden showers SM scene will be included on the DVD release? Thanking you in advance.

[Luscious]

Posted: 12/26/05 at 3:09pm

"Like life, somethings remain unanswered and the truth is never made clear."

And that's one of the things that I LOVE about this movie. It doesn't spell everything out for you. Much is left up to individual interpretation. It's a very mature film on so many levels. Not solely for it's subject matter, but also its approach. It's understandable why it wouldn't appeal to everyone. It's definitely not for children, or those with childish minds.

Updated On: 12/26/05 at 03:09 PM

[roquat]

Posted: 12/26/05 at 5:24pm

FindingNamo, I'm glad that accounts of brutal child abuse are so hysterical to you.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/26/05 at 5:37pm

And you just proved positively that you overidentify with this movie the way certain tween girls overidentify with Wicked.

Newsflash: BBM is a work of fiction, both the short story AND the film! And fiction IS a fantasy. And the relationships in BBM were birthed in the fantasyland of a straight female writer. And it tapped into some fantasy of yours, too.

As did the scene they apparently left out tapped into mine. But the fantasies it gave you aren't inherently better than the fantasies it gave me. It's ALL fantasy.

Get it?

[roquat]

Posted: 12/26/05 at 5:41pm

You had a fantasy brought out by a (yes, fictional) account of a nine-year old being beaten and urinated on...

Whatever floats your boat, but I wouldn't let that get around.

Updated On: 12/26/05 at 05:41 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/26/05 at 6:08pm

Why, because look what happened to Jack when he let HIS fantasies get around?

Fantasies are JUST fantasies, you idiot. As are Jack and Ennis. And your "relationship" to the story and movie about them.

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/26/05 at 6:18pm

I've read through most of this thread and it's fascinating. The ambiguities are making all of us think about the movie. I still haven't decided whether or not I like "ambiguities" in ANY form of narrative storytelling. Is it a "cop-out," a "plot loophole" or is it "realistic?"

And how's THAT for an ambiguous comment?

I really chimed in now to clarify one point, though:

Could the wife have stamped "Deceased" herself on the card and sent it back?

Yes. My mother's second husband died very suddenly. She couldn't "stop" all of his mail at the post office, for fear of missing something important or urgent. Everything from delinquency notices, to checks, to bills, to subscription renewal notices were coming in. The post office would have stopped ALL mail from going through to her, if she had done that. So, my mother bought herself a "deceased" stamp and used it whenever she felt she couldn't deal with opening another envelope from someone she didn't know.

Was Jake's wife the one who stamped it in the film? Who knows? But it is possible and realistic that it might have been her.

Did her "rehearsed" answer on the phone mean that Jake was killed in some other way, and she was covering it up? Not necessarily. This was probably the umpteenth time she had relayed the details over the phone to concerned friends and relatives. Trust me, I've been there. You find yourself repeating the same information over and over again, numbly. Even in your sleep. You become detached, almost by choice. It removes the emotion from it, and you "remove" yourself from the "speech."

It's as possible a reason as saying that she knew secretly Jake died another way and was covering it up.

I know... it's all ambiguous... and it's all possible.

Updated On: 12/26/05 at 06:18 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/26/05 at 6:23pm

Oh yeah, OH YEAH! You just reminded me of the biggest detail that is established on the first post card Ennis writes to reply to Jack! PEOPLE DON'T PUT RETURN ADDRESSES ON POST CARDS!!!!!!

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/26/05 at 6:25pm

Hmmmm.... Namo, you have a very good point. I don't think I've ever seen one either. Ever. (Certainly not on a personal postcard.)

Updated On: 12/26/05 at 06:25 PM

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 12/26/05 at 8:51pm

As for the ending--in the story, Ennis does indeed "picture" Jack's death as a hate crime while Lurlene is describing it as an accident. But, later on, he decides FOR CERTAIN that it really was a hate crime. [...]
I guess we're supposed to think that Mr. Twist was even more of a monster than Ennis' father was, and that he himself had a hand in his son's killing.

Yes, I noticed this while reading the short story, too. The problem is, there's nothing in Mr. Twist's speech that points o Jack dying in a hate crime, except Ennis' memory of Jack's childhood story. I think Ennis (illogically) makes the jump from that memory to a certainty of Jack's murder, because Ennis believed his own father killed "Earl." He therefore believes that Jack's father, being similarly monstrous, could kill Jack for being gay.

[roquat]

Posted: 12/26/05 at 10:10pm

That was a joke, FindingNamo. I know you're not used to those, especially when they're funny.

Now who's overreacting?

[Luscious]

Posted: 12/26/05 at 10:30pm

roquat... give up and save yourself the aggrevation. You can't win with Namo. He's just being his usual antagonistic, smartass self. He enjoys provoking, ruffling feathers, and being the center of attention. If he was even one quarter as clever as he thinks he is, his comments might almost be worthy of some thought and consideration.

Updated On: 12/26/05 at 10:30 PM

[roquat]

Posted: 12/26/05 at 10:54pm

Ah well. As they say, "I'd rather be a smartass than a dumbass."

Getting back to the topic--at risk of seeming unbearably sentimental, I actually wonder if the term "Brokeback Mountain" will enter our vocabulary the way "somewhere over the rainbow" did--as representative of some mythical faraway land where this kind of love can flourish unopposed. Remember what Lurene says on the phone--"knowing Jack, it might be a place that never existed...where bluebirds sing and there's a whiskey spring." It's almost a direct quote. Let's face it, we're still a long way from acquiring equal rights--even if we're eventually allowed to marry, adopt children, serve openly in the military, etc., we still have to deal daily with that unspoken layer of social disapproval--knowing there are large numbers of people who hate us. Forgive me if I sound dreamy, but I could use a Brokeback Mountain where I could get away from them all.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/26/05 at 11:01pm

I am rubber you are glue Luscious.

[roquat]

Posted: 12/26/05 at 11:05pm

I wish your parents had used a rubber, FindingNamo. (Sorry, Luscious, couldn't resist. Some nights you're just hot!)

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/26/05 at 11:35pm

And I wish yours had started right off with sodomy just like your heroes Heathy and Jakey!

[Luscious]

Posted: 12/27/05 at 12:17am

What witty banter. Noel Coward, eat your heart out!

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/27/05 at 12:23am

Considering you're not worth working up to Noel Gallagher-level banter...

[Luscious]

Posted: 12/27/05 at 1:21am

Namo... you're in desperate need of new material. And a coffee enema might do you some good, as well.

Updated On: 12/27/05 at 01:21 AM

[Auggie27]

Posted: 12/27/05 at 7:47am

Boys, boys, back to to your separate pup tents!

But love it, resent it, wish it different...wish it gayer ... How can this movie not enter the pop culture vocabulary? The very title is infused with sexual innuendo. Even THE NATION this week suggests it will have iconic stature, stating that the stairwell reunion kiss, witnessed by Alma, will be up there with Rhett and Scarlett. Why not?

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/27/05 at 10:11am

Well, see now, there's a problem with that, in my estimation. That's one of the scenes (along with Randy Quaid looking through the binoculars at our beloved A&F models) that just caused the audience I was in -- gay men and straight women, largely -- to laugh and laugh like it was a scene in Porky's. But that's not what that scene is about, or the one with the binoculars. It's those two moments that send our heroes down the path of doom and destruction.

To me, separating those scenes out in order to embrace them devoid of context is a little like saying, "Well, Sophie had a FABULOUS relationship with her daughter, one I would like to have with my mom. Before those stupid Nazis made her choose and ruined everything."

[PalJoey]

Posted: 12/27/05 at 10:24am

For those who can't get enough, Andy Towle provides The Towleroad Guide to Brokeback Mountain:


(And Namo--have I mentioned to you that tyhe line is "Ah wish ah KNEW HOW TO kwit chewww" not "Ah wish ah could kwit chewww"?)
The Towleroad Guide to Brokeback Mountain

[roquat]

Posted: 12/27/05 at 6:04pm

Ah wish he knew how to kwit...posting.

[Auggie27]

Posted: 12/27/05 at 6:17pm

Namo, the audience tittered, nervously, at both scenes when I saw it, too -- a packed, otherwise hushed house in Montclair, NJ, our North Joisey gay enclave -- but knowingly, in touch with the high stakes portrayed, I do believe. I sensed no Porkys knee-slapping.

The movie's built in "forces of antagonism," as they say in screenwriting 101, are those beyond the mountain respite who could find out. The boss at first, and then, highest stakes in the personal drama, a wife. I think the audience simply needs to acknowledge the mounting tension. And Alma's viewing the kiss comes after one of the most heartbreaking sequences, when Ennis sits up all day, eyes glued to the window. For what it's worth, the laughter stopped as abruptly as it began, to hear the introduction, and to simply see what Ennis would do. In no way did the audience seem to be mocking the emotions.

[roquat]

Posted: 12/27/05 at 6:28pm

Calm down, Namo. Did someone drop a house on your sister?