The I didn't get the job rant
#2
Posted: 10/4/06 at 10:22pm
Let each interview be a learning experience...and don't burn bridges.
Rest in peace, Iflitifloat.
#3
Posted: 10/4/06 at 10:24pm
and never assume a friend will give an easy interview
and, never wear jeans to an interview.......
but I am sorry you didn't get the job
and, never wear jeans to an interview.......
but I am sorry you didn't get the job
It is ridiculous to set a detective story in New York City. New York City is itself a detective story...
AGATHA CHRISTIE, Life magazine, May 14, 1956
#4
Posted: 10/4/06 at 10:26pm
...or sneakers.
Rest in peace, Iflitifloat.
#5
Posted: 10/4/06 at 10:34pm
They're right. You always have to dress for an interview, even if you know everyone involved, it's a mostly casual office and you think it's a lock -- at least a nice, non-designer suit that you should be able to find at a reasonable price. Appearance is always a big part of a decision, especially in jobs in which you'll be interfacing with corporate customers.
#6
Posted: 10/4/06 at 10:37pm
never wear mauve to a ball, either
It is ridiculous to set a detective story in New York City. New York City is itself a detective story...
AGATHA CHRISTIE, Life magazine, May 14, 1956
#8
Posted: 10/4/06 at 10:39pm
You should probably buy a nice outfit/suit (not nessacarily expensive) just to have in case you need it- like today.
There may be unexpected times where you may need something like that so it's always good to have at least 1 nice/somewhat professional outfit.
There may be unexpected times where you may need something like that so it's always good to have at least 1 nice/somewhat professional outfit.
"How bout a little black dress?"~hannahshule
"I have a penis, not a vagina." ~munkustrap178
#9
Posted: 10/4/06 at 11:14pm
Well, in his/her defense, he/she did say that he thought he/she was going in to just talk to the person about a job description, but the lady was told he/she was going in for an interview.
"They're eating her and then they're going to eat me. OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!" -Troll 2
#10
Posted: 10/5/06 at 1:42am
It's ALL an interview process, even up to the end of your probation period.
Rest in peace, Iflitifloat.
#11
Posted: 10/5/06 at 2:07am
I hate to admit it but companies can decide not to hire you because of your clothing. They are seeking professionals, and clothing choice is important in showing how professional you are. I'm not saying that you are an unprofessional person, but let this be a learning experience and remeber this: ANYTIME you talk to someone involved with the company that you are trying to get a job at, dress business-like even if it's not the actual question-answer interview.
The other thing, did the job description specifically point out that you need a B.A.? If not, then I don't think that means that the person who has the B.A. is guaranteed a hire...you don't know if the other person hired, B.A. or not, was lucky and somehow had professional experience in the field. If it is in the job description, and you find out the other person doesn't have one, then I dunno what you can do about that, if you can do anything at all.
I really am sorry you didn't get the job. But just let it be a lesson to you.
The other thing, did the job description specifically point out that you need a B.A.? If not, then I don't think that means that the person who has the B.A. is guaranteed a hire...you don't know if the other person hired, B.A. or not, was lucky and somehow had professional experience in the field. If it is in the job description, and you find out the other person doesn't have one, then I dunno what you can do about that, if you can do anything at all.
I really am sorry you didn't get the job. But just let it be a lesson to you.
"We like to snark around here. Sometimes we actually talk about theater...but we try not to let that get in our way." - dramamama611
#12
Posted: 10/5/06 at 2:49am
Removed at the request of the originator of this thread, although all it took was simple Google search to pull up the information. Hopefully this will be a lesson to you.
"How do you like THAT 'misanthropic panache,' Mr. Goldstone?" - PalJoey
Updated On: 10/7/06 at 02:49 AM
#13
Posted: 10/5/06 at 2:54am
I was just going to say, "I hope this Paul Rakov creature is not a BWW member."
Salve, Regina, Mater misericordiae
Vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra
Salve, Salve Regina
Ad te clamamus exsules filii Eva
Ad te suspiramus, gementes et flentes
O clemens O pia
Vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra
Salve, Salve Regina
Ad te clamamus exsules filii Eva
Ad te suspiramus, gementes et flentes
O clemens O pia
Updated On: 10/5/06 at 02:54 AM
#14
Posted: 10/5/06 at 7:37am
"Let's face facts, I'm not getting rich working here for $11/hour. Between car payments, insurance, rent, phone, electric, cable, and student loans I have no money left for health insurance, forget nice clothing. So **** you Paul Rakov, you're so worried about branding, you're forgetting about the actual employees."
Go to a consignment shop, thrift store or whatever and get yourself a Charcoal-Gray Pin-Strpie Suit. (That goes for both genders.) It's appropriate for interviews, funerals, and even weddings (well more so for men than women)
An interview suit doesn't have to have a designer tag, just look descent.
Go to a consignment shop, thrift store or whatever and get yourself a Charcoal-Gray Pin-Strpie Suit. (That goes for both genders.) It's appropriate for interviews, funerals, and even weddings (well more so for men than women)
An interview suit doesn't have to have a designer tag, just look descent.
My parents told me I could be whatever I wanted. I chose asshole.
#15
Posted: 10/5/06 at 7:41am
Buy it quickly! I think you're going to need it sooner than later.
#16
Posted: 10/5/06 at 8:28am
So, almost everyone knows how excited I was that a job in my field was opening up here at Emerson Place where I have worked for over 4 years as the Assistant to Sales and Marketing. It seemed like fate had laid a clear path for me. I received my BA degree only last year and felt like everything was finally coming together, that I might have a career here.
I applied for the job and interviewed with the Marketing Director, Paul Rakov. Upon leaving that interview I ran into my competition, a tall, thin, blonde who I had met the previous weekend at Belleayre. She was apparently the person they wanted for the job originally, but she was asking for $10,000 more a year than I was. So I was told in confidence by another employee not to worry.
Paul had told me after the interview that he would tell me when I should speak to Tracy to find out more of what the job had to do with her department. A few days later I received an email telling me to "please schedule 30 minutes to speak with tracy lynch about the sales and marketing assistant position." Tracy was someone I considered a friend and I was working under the mistaken impression that this was just so she could tell me the job description, so I set up a meeting. My car was in the shop, so I was walking. I wore a long sleeved o-ring shirt, nice jeans (mackievlli or whatever), and sneakers (pink Pumas) to walk to the meeting.
Apparently she was told I was coming in for an interview and critiqued me as such. She totally lied to Paul and said I wore jeans that had paint on them and orange sneakers.
So last Thursday I sat down with Paul again and was told I was not getting the job because I do not have experience with marketing (well, no **** sherlock, that's why I was applying for the assistant job, not the director) and that they were pursing someone else, who I can only assume is the Blonde. And then he went on to critique my clothing. Let's face facts, I'm not getting rich working here for $11/hour. Between car payments, insurance, rent, phone, electric, cable, and student loans I have no money left for health insurance, forget nice clothing. So **** you Paul Rakov, you're so worried about branding, you're forgetting about the actual employees.
And since when does a job depend more on clothing than an actual degree, because you can bet if I find out whomever is hired doesn't have a degree there will be ANOTHER discrimination lawsuit against this company.
Good luck, sweetheart.
I applied for the job and interviewed with the Marketing Director, Paul Rakov. Upon leaving that interview I ran into my competition, a tall, thin, blonde who I had met the previous weekend at Belleayre. She was apparently the person they wanted for the job originally, but she was asking for $10,000 more a year than I was. So I was told in confidence by another employee not to worry.
Paul had told me after the interview that he would tell me when I should speak to Tracy to find out more of what the job had to do with her department. A few days later I received an email telling me to "please schedule 30 minutes to speak with tracy lynch about the sales and marketing assistant position." Tracy was someone I considered a friend and I was working under the mistaken impression that this was just so she could tell me the job description, so I set up a meeting. My car was in the shop, so I was walking. I wore a long sleeved o-ring shirt, nice jeans (mackievlli or whatever), and sneakers (pink Pumas) to walk to the meeting.
Apparently she was told I was coming in for an interview and critiqued me as such. She totally lied to Paul and said I wore jeans that had paint on them and orange sneakers.
So last Thursday I sat down with Paul again and was told I was not getting the job because I do not have experience with marketing (well, no **** sherlock, that's why I was applying for the assistant job, not the director) and that they were pursing someone else, who I can only assume is the Blonde. And then he went on to critique my clothing. Let's face facts, I'm not getting rich working here for $11/hour. Between car payments, insurance, rent, phone, electric, cable, and student loans I have no money left for health insurance, forget nice clothing. So **** you Paul Rakov, you're so worried about branding, you're forgetting about the actual employees.
And since when does a job depend more on clothing than an actual degree, because you can bet if I find out whomever is hired doesn't have a degree there will be ANOTHER discrimination lawsuit against this company.
Good luck, sweetheart.
"Winning a Tony this year is like winning Best Attendance in third grade: no one will care but the winner and their mom."
-Kad
"I have also met him in person, and I find him to be quite funny actually. Arrogant and often misinformed, but still funny."
-bjh2114 (on Michael Riedel)
-Kad
"I have also met him in person, and I find him to be quite funny actually. Arrogant and often misinformed, but still funny."
-bjh2114 (on Michael Riedel)
Updated On: 10/8/06 at 08:28 AM
#17
Posted: 10/5/06 at 9:10am
>>And since when does a job depend more on clothing than an actual degree, because you can bet if I find out whomever is hired doesn't have a degree there will be ANOTHER discrimination lawsuit against this company.<<
Let me offer up a little reality check as I de-lurk for a moment.
A bit of background: I'm an HR Director currently and have been in HR for 15 years. Over the years, I've done literally THOUSANDS of interviews.
First, you ALWAYS dress for an interview. Until you're told, "We'd like to offer you the job of XYZ," anyone you speak with is an interviewer. Obviously, there was a misperception on both your part and Tracy's as to what that 30 minute meeting was supposed to be.
Second, what you wear makes an impression. Tracy clearly thought this was an interview and wasn't impressed by your attire. For the record, there are those who feel that casual dress = casual attitude toward work. I'm not necessarily one of those people, but if you don't care enough to dress for a work meeting, then the mindset is "Will she care enough to dress properly when she gets the job?" More importantly, it's not illegal to not hire someone because they wore jeans to an interview.
As for the last half of the quoted sentence: good luck with that. It doesn't sound like you've seen the job description. Every single job description I've written includes this language under the Education section: "BA/BS degree in ABC or related field and X years of experience required. Y years of experience in lieu of education will be considered." So, it's entirely possible that someone without a degree will get the job and there's not a darn thing you can do about it. Education is not a protected class with respect to illegal discrimination.
Discrimination exists in the workplace, make no mistake about it. In your case, they discriminated against people who wear jeans to interviews. Does it stink to be on the receiving end of that? Of course. Is it illegal? Not even close.
Lastly, it was incredibly unprofessional of you to post Paul's full name in addition to the name of the business. As Kringas so helpfully posted, his information is clearly in the public domain where anyone can access it. For your sake, I hope no one here knows YOUR full name and decides to call him or email him with this thread.
I hope you chalk this up to lessons learned and do things differently next time.
Let me offer up a little reality check as I de-lurk for a moment.
A bit of background: I'm an HR Director currently and have been in HR for 15 years. Over the years, I've done literally THOUSANDS of interviews.
First, you ALWAYS dress for an interview. Until you're told, "We'd like to offer you the job of XYZ," anyone you speak with is an interviewer. Obviously, there was a misperception on both your part and Tracy's as to what that 30 minute meeting was supposed to be.
Second, what you wear makes an impression. Tracy clearly thought this was an interview and wasn't impressed by your attire. For the record, there are those who feel that casual dress = casual attitude toward work. I'm not necessarily one of those people, but if you don't care enough to dress for a work meeting, then the mindset is "Will she care enough to dress properly when she gets the job?" More importantly, it's not illegal to not hire someone because they wore jeans to an interview.
As for the last half of the quoted sentence: good luck with that. It doesn't sound like you've seen the job description. Every single job description I've written includes this language under the Education section: "BA/BS degree in ABC or related field and X years of experience required. Y years of experience in lieu of education will be considered." So, it's entirely possible that someone without a degree will get the job and there's not a darn thing you can do about it. Education is not a protected class with respect to illegal discrimination.
Discrimination exists in the workplace, make no mistake about it. In your case, they discriminated against people who wear jeans to interviews. Does it stink to be on the receiving end of that? Of course. Is it illegal? Not even close.
Lastly, it was incredibly unprofessional of you to post Paul's full name in addition to the name of the business. As Kringas so helpfully posted, his information is clearly in the public domain where anyone can access it. For your sake, I hope no one here knows YOUR full name and decides to call him or email him with this thread.
I hope you chalk this up to lessons learned and do things differently next time.
#18
Posted: 10/5/06 at 10:18am
Well, the only thing I can offer is to reinforce the reality check shared by several other posters...
Clothes are important in the job hunting process, like it or not. Marketing acts as a face to the company. The interiewer will notice whether you are dressed appropriately to represent the company to the public. I agree with others - consider getting one outfit that can serve as your "interview" outfit. I don't mean to sound harsh, but interviewers could care less that you have other bills to pay. All they remember is that you wore jeans and sneakers to an interview or meeting. Buy yourself something (not expensive, but professional) at TJ Maxx or a consignment shop and consider it an investment in your career. Clothing is a part of the whole package (including a degree, experience, etc.).
Education is nice, but not always necessary. Does the job description say B.A. required, or simply preferred? Education is great to have, and important indeed, but experience speaks volumes as well. Perhaps the other candidate had more experience (it happens). And perhaps he or she also has a degree, just like you.
Posting the name of the person and the company here on a public message board is pretty unprofessional. Perhaps your level of professionalism, or lack thereof, was a factor in the hiring process?
I understand your disappointment, it sounds like you have been loyal to the company, having worked there for some time, and were turned down for a job you really wanted. But it also sounds like you are a bit sour. So chalk it up as a lesson for next time, and good luck to you!
Clothes are important in the job hunting process, like it or not. Marketing acts as a face to the company. The interiewer will notice whether you are dressed appropriately to represent the company to the public. I agree with others - consider getting one outfit that can serve as your "interview" outfit. I don't mean to sound harsh, but interviewers could care less that you have other bills to pay. All they remember is that you wore jeans and sneakers to an interview or meeting. Buy yourself something (not expensive, but professional) at TJ Maxx or a consignment shop and consider it an investment in your career. Clothing is a part of the whole package (including a degree, experience, etc.).
Education is nice, but not always necessary. Does the job description say B.A. required, or simply preferred? Education is great to have, and important indeed, but experience speaks volumes as well. Perhaps the other candidate had more experience (it happens). And perhaps he or she also has a degree, just like you.
Posting the name of the person and the company here on a public message board is pretty unprofessional. Perhaps your level of professionalism, or lack thereof, was a factor in the hiring process?
I understand your disappointment, it sounds like you have been loyal to the company, having worked there for some time, and were turned down for a job you really wanted. But it also sounds like you are a bit sour. So chalk it up as a lesson for next time, and good luck to you!
#19
Posted: 10/5/06 at 12:43pm
A simple rule about dress: ALWAYS dress for the job you WANT, not the job you have. If everyone in the office wears jeans and the boss is always in dress shirt & tie, wear a dress shirt & tie. Every day. Especially when you are up for a review, a promotion or even talking about a new job.
#20
Posted: 10/5/06 at 3:30pm
Another good thing to remember is that BWW threads show up in Google searches, so if Mr. Paul Rakov decides to Google himself, he could very possibly turn up this thread.
"How do you like THAT 'misanthropic panache,' Mr. Goldstone?" - PalJoey
#21
Posted: 10/5/06 at 3:59pm
I'm afraid I have to agree with the 'mos and others who said it DOES matter how you dress.
When I temp all over the city, I am usually dressed WAY better than the people I replace--but remember it's always better to be overdressed than underdressed. And I usually get what you get an hour.
When I temp all over the city, I am usually dressed WAY better than the people I replace--but remember it's always better to be overdressed than underdressed. And I usually get what you get an hour.
#22
Posted: 10/5/06 at 6:54pm
But you're talking about temp assignments as opposed to an interview, right?
"How do you like THAT 'misanthropic panache,' Mr. Goldstone?" - PalJoey
#25
Posted: 10/8/06 at 12:28am
Who was the idiot that actually called him?
A different idiot, presumably, than the one who posted his full name in the first place. Actually, I don't think that anyone who called or e-mailed him actually is an idiot. The man has a right to know that his professional reputation is being trashed by a bitter rejected applicant. It would serve you well to remember that this is a public message board and that anyone with an internet connection, a passing interest in theater and a couple of colliding brain cells can access. Case in point... ::shrug:: I'm glad he got called. It serves you right.
The Job Description/ requirements said 1 year with company
What's so special about this company that only people from within are considered as applicants for certain positions? I'm guessing that there is some experience clause in there somewhere and you just didn't see it.
And let's review the fact that yes I have car payments, but I have no car because I cannot afford to pay my transmission bill, so my car is in a repair shop 30 minutes from where I live in rural upstate NY.
And there is no employer who cares that you have bills to pay. So does the company and so does the person interviewing you. What the heck makes you so special?
There is no way, even if I had the money, for me to go shopping.
No one else you know in "rural upstate NY" has a car? Please. I find it hard to believe that you know no one with a car to take you to the store--money issues aside.
The current lawsuit, as I know it, is because the company wants their image to be thin, pretty women. I assume this is illegal? And if the person who is hired meets these requirements and not the ones actually in the job description does this qualify as some type of discrimination?
Reality check, sweetheart: being fat and ugly isn't a protected class under any discrimination statute that I know of. As I mentioned in my previous post, discrimination exists in the workplace. Whether it rises to the level of illegal discrimination is the litmus test. In this case, it doesn't.
My advice: get over it, move on and grow up. Find another job or suck it up and learn how lie in the bed you made with this company. For the record, when they fire you for your stupidity regarding this situation and your unprofessional behavior in the aftermath, that won't be discrimination, either.
A different idiot, presumably, than the one who posted his full name in the first place. Actually, I don't think that anyone who called or e-mailed him actually is an idiot. The man has a right to know that his professional reputation is being trashed by a bitter rejected applicant. It would serve you well to remember that this is a public message board and that anyone with an internet connection, a passing interest in theater and a couple of colliding brain cells can access. Case in point... ::shrug:: I'm glad he got called. It serves you right.
The Job Description/ requirements said 1 year with company
What's so special about this company that only people from within are considered as applicants for certain positions? I'm guessing that there is some experience clause in there somewhere and you just didn't see it.
And let's review the fact that yes I have car payments, but I have no car because I cannot afford to pay my transmission bill, so my car is in a repair shop 30 minutes from where I live in rural upstate NY.
And there is no employer who cares that you have bills to pay. So does the company and so does the person interviewing you. What the heck makes you so special?
There is no way, even if I had the money, for me to go shopping.
No one else you know in "rural upstate NY" has a car? Please. I find it hard to believe that you know no one with a car to take you to the store--money issues aside.
The current lawsuit, as I know it, is because the company wants their image to be thin, pretty women. I assume this is illegal? And if the person who is hired meets these requirements and not the ones actually in the job description does this qualify as some type of discrimination?
Reality check, sweetheart: being fat and ugly isn't a protected class under any discrimination statute that I know of. As I mentioned in my previous post, discrimination exists in the workplace. Whether it rises to the level of illegal discrimination is the litmus test. In this case, it doesn't.
My advice: get over it, move on and grow up. Find another job or suck it up and learn how lie in the bed you made with this company. For the record, when they fire you for your stupidity regarding this situation and your unprofessional behavior in the aftermath, that won't be discrimination, either.
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