The Pope has died — Page 2

Pope John Paul was loved by so many people. I had great respect for him.

I know someone who for spent nearly a week with him when he came to the State years ago. She told me he projected a feeling of serenity and kindness.

I hope our next Pope recognizes that homosexuality is not sinful, but in fact natural and works to have women's status elevated in the Church. But I'm saddened by John Paul II's passing. He reached out to many religions and maintained his anti-war stance. I'll attend a mass in his honor Monday, and of course on the day of his funeral.

AND.....what so few here have said, is how he holds a GREAT deal of the responsibility for the fall of communism. For that he must be respected.

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doxy, I thought you were Aussie...
Anyway, I do feel for those of you who have lost a leader.
And I feel inclined to throw my voice in for those who hope the next man chosen to lead the Roman Catholic church will only continue to bring people of divergent backgrounds together.
You can say you're inclusive all day long, but until you truly are, it's empty rhetoric.
The leader of the Catholic church is in a position to influence so many people towards acceptance and understanding instead of fear and ignorance.

First, let me acknowledge the inherent danger in posting the thoughts that I am about to type. They will surely elicit the anger of several people. They are NOT intended to do so; they are intended to prompt further thought and discussion.

With that said, I find this thread both interesting and challenging. While Pope John Paul II can certainly be credited with having done many good things during his 26-year reign, he has singlehandedly set back the causes of women and lesbians and gays. As you may recall, he called the fight for marriage equality for lesbians and gays "part of the ideology of evil." As for the hope that the next Pope will be less conservative, well, don't get your hopes up. Just as George Bush seeks to stack the deck by appointing conservative justices to the Supreme Court, Pope JP II, as I understand, has appointed all but three of the 135 cardinals that will choose his successor.

The interesting part of this discussion is the fact that much of the thread has been linked to the President of one of, perhaps, "the most powerful forces working to defeat gay equality" (Advocate, April 12, 2005). While, according to the article, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints' finances are not public, there is no doubt that it has been involved in the passage of same-sex marriage bans across the country. It is no wonder that President Hinckley would praise the Pope.

Think and discuss.

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paradox, you are one of the few who does understand this....wasn't refering to you...I know you know.

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The news coverage has been fascinating (the little that I've watched, anyway). The certainly have not shied (sp?) away from the Pope's conservative views and how, it seems, they can be at odds with the leity (at least here in America). I'm not one for dancing on anyone's grave, but I certainly don't think it's inappropriate to stop and take stock of this very public communicator of doctrine. I'm sure it's as he wants it.

I, being raised Catholic, have VERY mixed feelings. There was much good he did in the world. And there were failings he had that prevented him from accepting all of humanity into a spiritual communion. In the end, he was just a man. And I feel sadness that his man has passed and has left many feeling grief and uncertainty. I also feel a great sadness for the millions that are kept from knowing a truly inspiring message because of who they love. Perhaps the next Pope (or the next) will have the capacity to see the divinity in all people.

Strange that, on the occassion of the Pope's passing, I think of the words of 'godless liberal', Socialist, Jew playwright Tony Kushner:

We live past hope.

and

The world only spins forward. We will be citizens. The time has come.

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That was a beautiful post, Robbie.

I repeat:

We live past hope.

If we can't imagine it...if we can't hope for a change, then change will never come.

You can live with your Canon Law and see the world as it is.

I can live with my hope and see what the world can be.

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Everything old is new again.

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Robbiej, this is the best post of them all.
It's one thing to choose to honor a man who has passed on but to deny the other side of the story is just wrong.
This is a man who affected public opinion and policy (both church and governmental) in many ways; some for better, some for worse.
To deny discussing that simply because he is gone is, well, short-sighted. And a big disservice to the man himself. If he didn't want us to be thinking on his own policies towards lesbians and gay and women then he shouldn't have written them. Yet there they are. To be seen, digested, discussed.
And now, upon his death, is the best time to take stock in the man.
Did he do many good things? Yes. Did he do many things which I find are bad? Yes.

It's call hypocrisy.

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