"Theatre" ranked among the most useless undergraduate majors

[AC126748]

Posted: 1/19/12 at 3:08pm

The top 5, according to the National Association of Colleges and Employers, are:

1. Agriculture
2. Fashion design
3. Theatre
4. Animal science
5. Horticulture

In truth, almost any college major that one chooses out of love as opposed to financial gain/career opportunity is "useless" to some degree. It's an interesting list though--wouldn't have necessarily been the ones I'd assume to be there.
http://education.yahoo.net/articles/most_useless_degrees.htm?kid=1KWNU

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 1/19/12 at 3:28pm

Well, yeah, performance training isn't exactly the most applicable to other things, but people who are majoring in theater aren't doing it for the flexibility. The problem is that all of the majors on that list, in their specificity, make it difficult to get some kind of fall-back job in another industry, which in this economy, is often necessary. None of these are "useless" to employers interviewing for what you were trained to do -- they're useless (broadly) in the sense that they're highly specific. You could easily make the argument for degrees in really broad subjects, though -- I have two of them -- and say that they cover so much that you are "actually" trained for nothing.

Updated On: 1/19/12 at 03:28 PM

[supportivemom]

Posted: 1/19/12 at 3:37pm

I think it's all how you market yourself. People who study theatre are comfortable in front of an audience so they can make great corporate trainers, lawyers, marketers, etc. They are also great at creativity, thinking on the spot, working well under pressure, and the list can go on and on! I believe you should major in something that you love and do really well instead of doing mediocre in a major you think will get you a good job.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 1/19/12 at 3:41pm

To a degree. If you're smart and savvy enough to know how to spin it, that can definitely help you. But you are also up against how potential employers view your major, too, which may not always be favorably or as transferrable to other kinds of work. It depends a lot on their viewpoint, too.

[AC126748]

Posted: 1/19/12 at 3:43pm

Unfortunately, not everyone has the opportunity to major in something they truly love. I've known a lot of people whose parents refused to help pay for their college education if they didn't choose a "practical" major, and many kids aren't able to go without some form of financial support from mom and dad. I see the same thing now with my own students. It has a lot to do with what Emcee says in her post, about how your major/concentration is going to be viewed by a potential survival job employer.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 1/19/12 at 3:48pm

Not to be mean (I studied theater; I just have academic degrees), but some people think theater is dumb, and sometimes you need an office job. I'm not saying don't major in theater if that's your calling in life, but you have to be ready for that uphill battle if The Dream doesn't fall into place right away.

[AC126748]

Posted: 1/19/12 at 3:51pm

I don't think there's anything mean about what you've written. It's accurate. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people--intelligent people--ask what the point of studying theatre is. Especially studying acting/voice. It's like some people think talent always comes out fully-formed with no training.

I was an English & Philosophy major in college (with a minor in Theatre History), so I've heard "What are you going to do with that?" more times than I can count.

Updated On: 1/19/12 at 03:51 PM

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 1/19/12 at 3:58pm

Well, here's the thing. That article sort of presupposes that a degree in theatre automatically means you intend to pursue acting as a profession.

I WILL say that when I was growing up we were told a degree was really important and that the degree itself was more important than what the degree was in. I'm not necessarily sure that's the case, and I say that as someone with a degree in theatre. I'm not saying it has cost me jobs,although I did have an insane job interview once with a woman who wasn't American born and didn't really understand what it means to have a BA in theatre from a liberal arts university. I just don't think it's provided as useful as I might have been led to believe, and I think that holds true for a number of different degrees.

[AC126748]

Posted: 1/19/12 at 4:05pm

Phyl, I think you're definitely right that there was a time--not even so long ago--when having a degree was of premium importance, and what you had that degree in was not necessarily as relevant. But from what I see on a daily basis, that seems to have changed. College kids today seem very aware how bad the climate is, and they want to major in the fields that they believe give them the best possible ability to get a job as quickly as possible. They view college as, essentially, professional training and not much more. I teach lit at a liberal arts college, and students who've taken my class to fulfill a core requirement almost always say something along the lines of "why do I have to take this? it has nothing to do with my field" on the first day of class.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 1/19/12 at 4:30pm

Guys, this is now a BWW HEADLINE.

I think philosophy is definitely one of those "...?" majors, so good for you for doing that. I am in awe of people who study philosophy, truly. My Master's program had a philosophy core and I was one confused camper.

I always heard that, too, PRS, but I think as the economy continues to struggle, it's becoming less and less true because employers have more and and more options when they're hiring, so they can be pickier about who they're bringing in. I graduated from college the year the economy really tanked -- so I look at the class before me, and I sometimes feel like they almost "missed" the recession. But that year, I was surrounded by people who weren't expecting this, and fully planned on graduating with jobs, just like people who work hard and go to good schools were supposed to -- and generally did -- do. But the shift was happening just as we were graduating, so instead, we floated around for a while, struggling to figure out why nobody would hire us. I don't know if being a year or two behind that would have changed what I majored in, though.

Updated On: 1/19/12 at 04:30 PM

[AC126748]

Posted: 1/19/12 at 4:36pm

I wasn't very good at Philosophy--I managed, but I realized that I was much better (and much more interested in) English Lit by the end of my Sophomore year. But by that point, I'd already done enough coursework that I decided to finish out the major. I definitely have high respect for people who choose to study it and have a real knack--they're few and far between. Luckily, when I started my PhD, "literary theory" (which is basically just another name for Philosophy) was starting to decline in popularity and relevance, so I didn't have to deal with it as much as people who were in grad school a decade before me.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/19/12 at 4:38pm

I don't think we should overlook the pressure being exerted by the current cultural moment that is doing its best to devalue education. I mean, there's a doofus given national airtime with the notion that child labor laws are "stupid," at a time when education cuts run rampant and people mock broke students for taking out loans for what they term "stupid" degrees. I don't think these topics coming up now and in these ways is random coicidence.

What is being put down the most is advanced education that helps people sharpen critical thinking skills, which is really what college is all about. And there's a reason the establishment would like it if fewer people learned those skills.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 1/19/12 at 4:50pm

Literary theory makes me sad, but yeah, kind of academic necessary evil. My undergrad advisor made me take it, but I have always been a practical > theory person.

That's a great point, Namo. This is kind of tangential to the context you're speaking in, but it reminded me. I had a professor in college who was remarkably well educated (Duke, Yale and Oxford, or something?) and when I asked her for advice about going to graduate school, her response was in the form of an e-lecture about how grad school wasn't worth it because it wouldn't funnel directly into a job. She was clearly disillusioned with the higher education system, but yeah, who gives a crap about education and critical thinking if that's what you want to pursue and you have the means (or are willing to pay for it for the rest of your life). From a professor. That was disheartening.

Updated On: 1/19/12 at 04:50 PM

[AC126748]

Posted: 1/19/12 at 4:57pm

I got the "don't go to grad school" lecture too from multiple undergrad profs. A lot of it has to do with the fact that a high majority of people going to grad school (especially in the Humanities) do so in the hopes of obtaining an academic job, and the academic job market is really, really bad right now, and has been for the last few years.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 1/19/12 at 5:16pm

Oh, totally. I'm in the minority in that that's not why I went, and I think it is good to get some tough love and serious questioning about how much and why you really want to do it, but the vehemence of that response in particular was so surprising to me -- one in which there was no willingness to discuss, just a blanket don't go, and I'm not interested in why you think it's a good idea.

On the grander scheme, though, so as not to jack the thread with my personal gripes, I think you want to be in an environment where the academy is rooting for itself; and in a lot of ways, we're not really able to do that right now. One of the many things in the sad state of education.

[WOSQ]

Posted: 1/20/12 at 1:43pm

In mid-life I have met many theatre majors who had gone to social work school, become teachers, who went into human resources and went into social services in general.

Of the 6 drama majors in my college class we had a housing person, an actor/data processor, a benefits explainer, a career US Army officer, a phone person and a real estate developer. All of us used our degree to interact with people and to think on our feet. Some of the 6 never used their theatre degree directly after graduation.

The one thing all of the majors (and not just the ones in our class) agreed upon is that we have no problem speaking in front of groups. We are more concerned that our message gets across than with the act of public speaking. All of us are verbal.

Acting sharpens one's perceptions. How many times do we have to make a snap decision about a character using just the info given to us by the playwright? In human resources for instance, you have to be able to listen to everything, not just what the person in front of you is saying. What in academia is referred to as 'critical thinking', I call just plain old thinking. Theatre people can think, analyze, construct and deconstruct.

Theatre also teaches reliability. If you don't make your entrance, who is going to cover your ass?

Finally, we are fun to be around. Jeez, we can be meglamaniacal nutcases, but dull we ain't

[Yawper]

Posted: 1/22/12 at 9:44pm

The theatre major I work with (in another field) is an absolute bitch.

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 1/22/12 at 10:15pm

Actually, I hate lists like that. Degrees are not useless, some of the people who get them are. People who are passionate, motivated and have a trajectory or blueprint for their lives make things work. You can do what you love and the money will follow. I know plenty of people with obscure degrees who make it work for them.

This list will just give unmotivated people with those degrees an excuse. Lovely.

[Kad]

Posted: 1/23/12 at 12:12am

"This list will just give unmotivated people with those degrees an excuse. Lovely."

...or it will really bum out some people who are currently in pursuit of those degrees. Like I am (though I mostly scoffed at the article).

[best12bars]

Posted: 1/23/12 at 7:35am

Who comes up with this list? (Not a literal question either.) What sort of mindset?

I know more theatre majors who have very successful careers now (most of them not in theatre). Did the theatre degree help them get there? They're doing REALLY well now. Not in their chosen major, however.

I would love to see how many people in the world are actually making a living and/or having successful careers in the same thing they majored in in college.

That would be the real eye-opener. Most people I know are doing other things. And quite well, I might add. Did their degree help them? I say probably, yes. But "practically speaking," no, it didn't. It shaped who they are, helped them determine, refine, and focus their goals ... and the degree only had as much bearing on their current job as luck (being at the right place at the right time for opportunity to strike).

Education is important. It only increases your options and your chances.

The biggest misconception is that the world works exactly like academia. In school, if you work hard, do everything that's expected of you, and do well, you will be rewarded. You get the "A." You achieve the expected goal.

In the real world, the job does not always go to the person who does the best or works the hardest. It's not a simple, guaranteed equation of "if I do this, then that will happen." Nope. There are always underlying politics involved, on a small scale or a larger one. And you'll never know about it. The job may go to the "pretty girl," or the boss's best friend's son, or the one they "liked" the best as far as personality, or simply the person that a favorite coworker knows really well.

That's the big difference between academia and the real world.

The other misconception is that once you're out of school, you're finished learning new things. Wrong! You will be studying, taking actual classes, seminars, workshops, on-the-job training, or other such forms of "education" for the rest of your life ... if you choose to move ahead. You don't stop learning at 22 or 23. It's a lifelong process of betterment, assuming you do want to improve and advance along the way. That's how and why so many of my "theatre friends" are living successful lives now. They continued to grow beyond structured academia. They kept evolving as people.

But the degree in Art History or Chinese Culture or Botany or Greek and Roman Studies ...

EDIT: By the way, Paul Rudd and Scott Bakula both went to my university in Kansas. They did really well in life. Neither one was a theatre major (I think Bakula majored in Chemistry or Psychology). So it works both ways. Theatre majors can be successful in other areas. And non-theatre majors can be successful in theatre and other entertainment professions. Just more examples of the path not being a direct one.

Updated On: 1/23/12 at 07:35 AM

[javero]

Posted: 1/23/12 at 12:14pm

"I would love to see how many people in the world are actually making a living and/or having successful careers in the same thing they majored in in college."

Count me as one, but I'm miserable as heck. Thanks to my parents I made a Faustian deal 30 yrs ago to pursue a degree in electrical engineering setting aside my interest in "music foolishness". That is the single biggest regret of my life. I'll be eligible for retirement in a couple of years so guess what I'm going to do then...start a muthafriggin' band.

I admire younger people who are willing to pursue their passions at all costs.