'Tis the season... for another senseless MALL SHOOTING SPREE- Page 2

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/6/07 at 9:13am

"And Besty, if you feel that strongly about it, why did you start the thread? I mean you are adding to the attention, aren't you? (I am not criticizing, just curious how you and folkboy justify posting about it if you don't think the guy should get any attention.)"

Sueleen--I'll do my best to explain my opinion on tragic incidents like this... The reason I started this thread was because it is a national, human tragedy. I don't want to make light of the victims or the horrible, senseless act that took their lives away.

I don't feel like the event itself should be swept under the carpet and ignored.

The part that makes me sick is that the trend of late (meaning the last few decades) has been to focus our attention on the murderer. Who was he, what was he like, what is his background, and why did he do it?

It's like pouring gasoline on a fire. The media is causing the problem, here in our country. There are other twisted, potentially "postal" minds out there watching the news. Seeing how these murderers are given national attention. How FINALLY their points of view are heard. People are listening and paying attention to them. Analyzing everything about them.

That's the part we need to ignore and sweep under the table. We have learned NOTHING as a society from giving these murderers the spotlight, except that their crimes came from deeply disturbed minds. There is no advance precaution that their victims can take, no words of wisdom to offer the general public. Giving the murderer a "face" isn't educational AT ALL, it's only appears to be a compassionate approach to the event, but in actuality, it's just sensational journalism at its ugliest.

I say report about the crime, but stop turning the murderer into the "star of the show."

That's how the media helps to encourage the next sensational, random shooting spree.

And just as I had predicted in my first posts on this particular sad event, the media is once again doing just that.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 12/6/07 at 10:58am

Top story on CNN.com reads "Mall shooter's suicide note: Now I'll be famous" with a huge photo of the shooter.

Looks like they were more than happy to grant his wish.

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 12/6/07 at 11:13am

Has anyone read THE TIPPING POINT by Malcolm Gladwell. He talks about how trends catch on and why that happens and why it doesn't. Its a fascinating read. Anyways, he talks about teen suicide and how one kid doing it can start an epidemic...I think its very much the same with Columbine. True, the kids at Columbine didn't invent mass shootings but it sure has gone through the roof since it happened.

[SNAFU]

Posted: 12/6/07 at 12:34pm

To be the Devil's Advocate, shouldn't we learn everything there is to know about the shooter? What were his reasons? What were the warning signs? Wouldn't knowing it in detail help perhaps educate people on what behaviors to worry about in people in their lives who might be going through very difficult times? Is little Johnny withdrawing from the world and acting depressed? Perhaps we should have him talk to somebody!
Fore warned is fore armed.
Perhaps there is a fine line the responsible media has to walk, educating the public without making a Tragic Cult Hero out of the perpetrator.

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/6/07 at 2:53pm

SNAFU---If the media could handle this intelligently, I'd say yes. But they always want to know "who, what, when, where, why," etc.

I agree with you and believe you CAN eliminate the specifics of the "who" and still discuss these cases and learn from them.

BUT we have to take away the murderer's "fame" first, otherwise they will continue to use a gun as their microphone to the world. You can discuss a troubled life, the imbalances and warped logic, etc. The treatments, society's behavior toward them.

But NEVER NAME THEM. Never show a photo of them. Never make them the "star of the show." Only the illness, the crime, the victims and the aftermath.

I just don't think the media gives a sh*t enough to be smart about it. They want ratings and sensationalism. The first question out of most people's mouths is "Who did this?!" They want to be first in line to tell us exactly who.

The only way we can fight back, other than to write, call, email and complain is to simply not watch them or buy the paper that supports such tactics. Whenever a story comes up, or a tragedy like this is reported with an in-depth profile of the murderer... change your channel. Turn them off. Refuse to buy the paper.

If we get them in their wallets, they will listen very quickly.

Updated On: 12/6/07 at 02:53 PM

[wexy]

Posted: 12/6/07 at 3:24pm

Agreed with Best. You can't give these people any publicity.
Thus the desire to be "famous" will me moot. The kid in Finland that shot up his school was communicating with some kid over here that was involved in another incident.

[robbiej]

Posted: 12/6/07 at 3:27pm

I'm sorry, best...but the first thing I was taught in my high school journalism class was a reporter must always find out the "who, what, when, where and why" as well as how.

It's news. I don't know any way to get around that.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 12/6/07 at 3:29pm

i'd like to see them post graphic after photos of the shooters in these cases and discuss whether death was immediate or if they suffered.

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 12/6/07 at 3:31pm

I dunno, robbiej. The minutae of the Virginia Tech shooter was examined (fetishized?) to such a degree that it became a kind of you-be-the-psychiatrist/sociolgist reality show.

[robbiej]

Posted: 12/6/07 at 3:33pm

I agree with that. It was a circus. But there has to be some middle ground between circus and reporters not fulfilling their obligations. The who cannot be left out...ever.

There are many more problems relating to this. The media coverage is just one. The lack of nuanced, affordable, helpful psychological care in this country is an even bigger one.

[harris007]

Posted: 12/6/07 at 3:36pm

just a 19 year old gunman, dont keep repeteing his name,

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 12/6/07 at 3:40pm

repeating the name makes them shoot cows.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 12/6/07 at 3:47pm

"I actually worked at the Westroads Mall in the mid-1970's. My parents ran the Westroads Dinner Theatre and I worked as a busboy/prop person (I was in high school). We left in 1976. The dinner theatre closed 2 years later.

At one point in the 70's there were three Equity theates in Omaha. Now there are none."

Huh?

WTF does that have to do with the shooting?

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 12/6/07 at 3:48pm

clearly the lack of theatre there caused this. that and the cows.

[SNAFU]

Posted: 12/6/07 at 4:13pm

The "Who, What,Where and Why" is very important. It gets across the "oh but it can happen here" message. It also gives the warning signs and things to be on the lookout for. My feeling though is the media's showing a smiling picture of the kid in happier times with the motto "Now I will be famous" emblazoned below it adds to the cult hero mystique. It is more how the "Who, What, Where and Why" is presented. This is the fine line to walk.
I have to agree with Papa to an extent. Show the graphically detailed pictures of the shooter, describe what his last moments were probably like, what he went through. There isn't too much to romanticize about a bloodied corpse.

edited for typo

Updated On: 12/6/07 at 04:13 PM

[Yawper]

Posted: 12/6/07 at 4:40pm

An additional problem, far too prevalent in US society, is the blame game. The who, what, where, when, the smallest facts revealed, all go to "who's to blame? who gets sued?" and the spinning starts immediately. Within a few hours of the event I heard a reporter asking the mall owner if security had been beefed up after finding a grenade in the parking lot last week and the start of the holiday rush, and if not, why not.

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/6/07 at 4:53pm

"The who cannot be left out...ever."


Then the motive to go on a random shooting spree will always be there for these sick minds. They will at last be heard by the world.

Just what exactly is to be gained by knowing the murderer's name and broadcasting his photo?

And what exactly is lost if we don't?

We can discuss everything else about him. All details are fair game... just leave his name and photo out of it. Take away his fame. That's all.

If the "news" (and I use that term loosely these days) isn't willing to do it, then they must understand the consequences of their "steadfast professional position."

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 12/6/07 at 5:04pm

I believe that Jon's point in mentioning the lack of Equity theatre just makes this even sadder.

I am also wondering...if your intent is to "be famous", wouldn't you shoot yourself in the foot or somewhere to ensure you can actually ENJOY your fame?

I don't mean to diminish the tragedy, because it really is one of the most terrifying things I can imagine, but to make people feel guilty for being interested in the gory details is just a load of crap.
It is human nature to be attracted to the gruesome.

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/6/07 at 5:21pm

"I am also wondering...if your intent is to "be famous", wouldn't you shoot yourself in the foot or somewhere to ensure you can actually ENJOY your fame?"


I don't think they're interested in being Irene Cara.

They want to go out in a blaze of glory. But the pathetic part is that they aren't "saying" anything by this action.

What is their message that they leave us with? Random shootings, a desperate desire to be seen and heard and "understood," immortality in the media... and yet ultimately they aren't saying anything.

They're angry, and hurt and they can't articulate anything to the world except with a gun and an understanding that their actions (however meaningless) will land them on the front page, and the top story of the nightly news.

"Yeah!!! Then they'll all know!"

Know what? What will we all know from your actions?


It's so warped, disturbing and deeply sad.



...almost as sad as the lack of Equity theatres, which I'm sure is at the root of it. If only he'd seen "Poor Jud Is Daid" sung JUST ONCE, he might have gotten the joke.

Updated On: 12/6/07 at 05:21 PM

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 12/6/07 at 5:30pm

And he certainly won't be singing "I'm gonna live forever, Baby, remember my name!"





Yea, I am going to hell with Kathy Griffin.

[robbiej]

Posted: 12/6/07 at 5:34pm

I know you're going to think I'm crazy when I offer this as a defense to "And what exactly is lost if we don't?":

The freedom of the press.

The second one person or group of people is allowed to decide what is fit to print, then the freedom of the press to report the news becomes compromised. And the fact is we have to be willing to accept a modicum of risk in our society if we are to remain free. Perhaps you think I'm full of SH*T. That's ok. I'm good with that. I just don't feel that any citizen or governmental agency has the right to tell any news source what to print.

[Yawper]

Posted: 12/6/07 at 6:29pm

"What is their message that they leave us with?"

In this case perhaps he was against rabid consumerism, especially the warping of the holiday season. Or, having been on the service side of the McDonald's counter, perhaps he just hated shoppers in general.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 12/6/07 at 6:40pm

maybe i'm reaching here, robbie, but i would hope that they would come to this conclusion on their own and police themselves without any outside intervention. i agree that no one should tell them what they can and cannot print, but often the media does choose not to reveal certain things all by themselves and does so without the story being compromised. i'd like to think that someone somewhere inside the news and entertainment industrial complex recognizes that their own coverage contributes to the frequency of these types of tragedies and would take action to change the way they do business. but then i am an optimist and like to think the best of people.

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/6/07 at 6:42pm

Robbie---Well, I didn't say "pass a law forbidding it," did I?

And in this case, it's a dangerous carrot to dangle in front of future murderers.

If enough people would decide to "protest" via email, editorial... or especially by not buying the papers, magazines or watching any news reports about it, they would get the message quickly all right.

Whether or not they would hold fast to their "rights" isn't the issue or even the request.

It's a voluntary censorship, just like the MPAA has a self-imposed system for their industry.

[wexy]

Posted: 12/6/07 at 6:46pm

And in that picture they posted of that loom=n, he looks like Shane from "The L Word."

Everyone is fascinated by the gore. The reporters kept asking
witness/survivors "Did you see the bodies?"