UNITED 93 is the best film of the year so far and by far...- Page 6

[DG]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 4:28pm

I'd be curious about my reaction to it, PJ. I finally went to Ground Zero last year, and had quite a release, so I probably wouldn't have as complete a breakdown as I might have had at one time.

Quite honestly, because of the questions I have concerning the events and how they're linked to what's going on around the world, I'm more inclined to seek out PARADISE NOW.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 5:12pm

1. "And, wow, Namo--such open and revealing posts, almost vulnerable."

Almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, pally.

2. "Who said 'frought?'"

I said "frought." And I was too spent and lazy to look it up, but I took such glee that Jane missed it in her correction post. Thank you pally, for showing the world what proof reading really is.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 5:15pm

What it really is is "proofreading."

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 5:18pm

Good one. Your the best!

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 6:24pm

My WHAT is the best?

Maybe we should take this into the nearest buddy booth.

[Luscious]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 6:26pm

Thanks for your reply, Jerby. Doubt I'll be seeing it anytime soon, So, end of discussion for now.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 6:50pm

Thank God.

side note: Oscarwatch.com officially lists the film on their Best Picture films in contention list. It's the first film of the year to make that category--same is true for Best Director.

Updated On: 5/1/06 at 06:50 PM

[Luscious]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 6:53pm

Sorry to bother you. But if you didn't want to engage in a conversation about it with me, maybe you shouldn't have responded to my initial post.

Updated On: 5/1/06 at 06:53 PM

[The W.A.N.D]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 6:54pm

I doubt I'll see it anytime soon but I hear its very powerful and moving. I just dont know if I'm ready to see a movie like this so soon after my best friend lost her dad in 9/11.

[DayDreamer]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 7:49pm

Well, as much as I resisted seeing it, I went to the matinee today. What I felt has pretty much been expressed, more eloquently, by other posters. I was very moved... it was tough watching when they were showing the actual CNN footage, because it took me back to that morning, sitting at parent's home, watching with my dad in total disbelief.

I realized how it must feel for those people that went to WWII, for example, to see movies about the events they experienced. For once, I was watching a movie about something I remembered vividly.

I am also glad I went alone. I don't think I could've had a conversation for about the first 10 minutes after the movie was over. When I could, I called my best friend and we spoke for a long time.

[brdlwyr]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 9:28pm

My wife said tonight that she would not see it, we will see. I will not see it without her. We lived through that day and the weeks after together and it would be cheating!

[EvelynNesbit1906]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 11:44pm

No, the film doesn't address the possibility that US military may have shot down the plane just as the passengers were taking control of it. Although I must say... I've been really interested in that idea lately. There were similar incidents over Russia just two years ago. Too taboo to touch in a first film, however, not unlike the possibility that 230 people ended up in midair flames just before falling into the Atlantic Ocean because some Americans were fooling around with a missile. It is enough to leave the theater thinking that you might one day die in a plane crash without imagining that your own country would orchestrate it "to save more lives."

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 5/1/06 at 11:55pm

Actually the film does address it in the paragraphs at the end stating when the order came allowing airliners to be shot down. The time stated in the film and at the web site linked in this post is after Flight 93 crashed.

Thus, the film implies that the military did not bring the plane down as recorded fact states that it did not. I'm not saying that something wasn't covered up, but if you believe the 9/11 Timeline, the film records this correctly.
United 93's timeline

[EvelynNesbit1906]

Posted: 5/2/06 at 12:03am

ETA: I should've said that the film doesn't explore that possibility. There is chaos in the aisles (mostly amongst men) and passengers freaking out in their seats, and then a spiraling shot of the approaching ground. (I think) the implication there is that there wasn't anyone trying to control the plane in its final moments.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 5/2/06 at 5:57pm

Elphaba wrote: On the National Geographic channel last night there was a 2hr documentary about 9-11 and all 4 planes.

I saw that. I had to change the channel several times, especially during the part about the people jumping from the windows and during the collpase of Tower 1, I began crying and screaming "I cant watch this, I cant watch this." and then changed the channel. But I returned and listened to all the heartbreaking stories of people whose loved ones were in the Towers & on the Flights. Its hard to deal with seeing as how I was 13 when 9/11 occured. But the movie (United 93) sparked a dicussion in my American History 2 class- Some felt they shouldnt make a movie like this to make a profit & I was the one who said "Its a tribute & the families were apart of the whole production of the film & how the money from opening weekend went to the memorial of Flight 93." I think teenagers (my age and older) don't fully understand the impact of 9/11 back in 2001 because we were so young- but now with such powerful images like the documentary: Inside 9/11 from the other night & United 93 we all realize- the world is so much different than it was September 10th 2001.
Updated On: 5/2/06 at 05:57 PM

[iflitifloat]

Posted: 5/2/06 at 6:33pm

I'm not sure that I agree that the WORLD is different since 9/11. I think it's more that OUR word is different. It's the first time we had to face just how vulnerable we are.

This is going to come out wrong, but since I just drove to Ohio from NJ and am still plagued by a raging case of bronchitis (and I'm not yet willing to rule out Bird Flu...*that's* how bad I feel), I'm just going to throw out some random thoughts. And I don't mean them as callously as it will seem.

However. As horrific as 9/11 was, when it happened, it was the one truly horrific thing (I can think of) that was visited on this country on our own soil by an aggressor. And yes, it WAS awful. And NO we didn't deserve it. And yes, that terrible day is permanently imprinted on my psyche, and I will see the movie, and will cry for people I know who died, as well as for people I don't know.

But there are some of things that bother me. Other people lost loved ones that day...in traffic accidents...in murders...from strokes.... Weren't their losses just as great, to them? The never-ending mourner-dom of some of the Families of 9-11 (certainly not all of them), and what sometimes feels to be entitlement issues, is starting to get on my last nerve. I feel like rather than encouraging the families to deal with their losses, heal, and move on, we've labeled and encouraged them to stay stuck...to the point that THAT has become the defining part of their identity. Grieving is essential, and remembering is important... but healing is nessessary, too. I bristle every time I hear someone describe the victims who died in the towers as "heroes". Because why? They got screwed. They were in the wrong place at the wrong time and they died. Does that make them heroes? Certainly many of them were. But, to me, it cheapens the term to use it as a blanket logo for anyone who died in the attacks.

And as long as I'm jumping into the deep end, let me add that sometimes it feels so self-centered to act like nothing like this has ever happened to anyone else when you look at all the dozens of places in the world where ongoing horrors exist with no hope of ending. And certainly no entitlements will be following Third World suffering.

I'm not saying that we don't have a right to mourn or remember. After all, as someone reminded me in a discussion earlier today, our pain IS special *because* it is OUR pain. That is true of everyone, everywhere. But it's also essential to remember that we are NOT the only ones who have ever known the pain of a terrorist attack. And for other victims in other countries, their pain is paramount to them, too.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 5/2/06 at 6:53pm

Iflit, I think everyone must grieve in their own way and far be it from me to tell someone how. But as tragic as that day was there also seems to be a sense of PRIDE that we were attacked that day. As if people were almost GLAD it happened so that now our generation can claim "we survived 9/11!" We now have a "Pearl Harbor" story to tell our grandkids, a "I remember when Kennedy was shot" bragger's rights. To put it in perspective for this board, Carrie might have been a horrible disaster on Broadway, but everyone that saw it happen will have that "I saw CARRIE!!!" story.
Sorry if that seems crass, but I think it is more true than most people would ever admit.

[Luscious]

Posted: 5/2/06 at 6:55pm

Bravo, iflit!!! I couldn't have said it better. I tried, but you're much more prolific than I could ever hope to be. Everything you said is on the money and exactly how I feel. I used the term "hero-worship" mentality. But you said it best. Sorry to hear you're under the weather, but it hasn't affected your ability to express yourself with articulateness and eloquence. Hope you're feeling better real soon!

[EvelynNesbit1906]

Posted: 5/2/06 at 10:44pm

What keeps me from looking back at 9/11 as the start of some isolated period of grief is the fact that about two weeks earlier in New York, there was a grand funeral on the Upper East Side for actress/singer Aaliyah (killed in a plane crash with eight others in late August 2001). Thousands of people supposedly showed up. Less than a month later, Aaliyah was hardly a memory for many.

[DG]

Posted: 5/3/06 at 12:41am

"I'm not sure that I agree that the WORLD is different since 9/11."

I'm not even sure that most of our lives our different. Certainly there are those who were directly affected whose life will never be the same. And there are those who deal with real altered reality because of changed security measures or other things.

But, as another poster said earlier, for many the only real change has been a rise in gas prices. Even here on the board I get the sense that kids go to school, adults go to work, people take vacations - all pretty much the way they did 'before'.

We're not living with rations, we haven't instituted a draft, and outside of places identified with this particular incident, the effect is minimal if felt at all.

I do wonder at who or what is keeping this image alive - whose purpose is being served by relegating it to the position of rallying point. I have my ideas, as I'm sure many others do.

The conversation of late has seemed to stem from this recent movie. But I wonder what the conversations are about - as opposed to what we could really be discussing.

And for the record, I KNOW there are some here on the board who have people close to them in Iraq - and so are obviously very personally affected. I'm just talking generally - which, from my standpoint - makes those affected the serious minority.

[EvelynNesbit1906]

Posted: 5/3/06 at 12:53am

What could we be discussing?

[DG]

Posted: 5/3/06 at 12:57am

Why the condition of ourselves and the world in general led to this happening - and what we could MAYBE do to change that path.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 5/3/06 at 1:17am

Luscious, I may be putting words in iflit's mouth, but she didn't say the people on Flight 93 weren't heroes. If they really did fight back and prevent that plane from killing people on the ground, they are indeed heroes.

And, I can't for the life of me see why that disgusts you. Fine if you believe the possible conspiracy theories may actually be the truth. But why on earth is the story on record so repulsive? Especially when it COULD be the truth.

And, I agree that we didn't deserve 9/11, but we are not an innocent nation. We have done terrible things. Sometimes by NOT doing.

[DG]

Posted: 5/3/06 at 1:21am

People are frequently puzzled by actions that they realize they wouldn't take themselves.

[iflitifloat]

Posted: 5/3/06 at 6:20am

What *I* said, that Luscious said he agreed with, was that as a nation we are ready to bestow the term "hero" very indiscriminately. Yes, there seem to have been people who acted heroically on Flight 93. Do we know who they were? Not necessarily. Do I have a problem with them being portrayed as heroic in a movie? Probably not, but I haven't seen the film yet. Even if a group of people DID act heroically and overtook the plane (which I have no reason to think didn't happen), does that make everyone on Flight 93 a hero? Nope. Some of them were, as I might easily have been, frozen in their seats in fear and horror, powerless over events that were taking place.

What Luscious and I agree on, I think, is disgust at the indiscriminate labeling of people as heroes. My example was people in the towers. Not everyone who died on 9-11 was a hero. Our society is so hungry for heroes to worship that we tend to seek them out and bestow the title without waiting to know the real circumstances. And the effect is to cheapen the term when applied to someone who truly did act heroically. And this phenomenon doesn't pertain just to 9/11, although that's where it tends to be amplified the most.

Which is not to say that some of the people on Flight 93 weren't heroes. But we also have to keep in mind that the movie is still a work of historical fiction, because a lot of blanks have been filled in along the way.