Why does dying make you better?

[Unknown User]

Posted: 1/24/08 at 2:18pm

Suddenly, Heath Ledger is a "Superstar" and one of the greatest actors of his generation. The Dark Knight is the "Summer's most anticipated film" and his turn as the Joker is already being hailed as a breakthrough- although hardly anyone has seen more than a few seconds out of context.

In reality, his career was spotty at best, low on hits and even lower on critical acclaim. Yes, he was Nominated for an Oscar for Brokeback Mountain but NO ONE gave him the slightest chance of winning. Apart from that and a handful of Patriot fans, was he ever acclaimed in life?

But it's not just Heath- Karen Carpenter was a punchline when her death suddenly made her everyone's favorite vocalist. Elvis had long degenerated into schlocky by-the-numbers lite rock when suddenly he was topping the charts posthumously. And John Lennon is now remembered as a rock powerhouse and pioneer- believe me, no one was talking about how profound "Imagine" was when it was clogging up top 40 radio and John Lennon was still alive. James Dean, Jim Morrison, Marylin Monroe, hell, even Anna Nicole has fans now...

So explain it to me: Why did "10 Things I Hate About You" suddenly become so much better, so well-crafted, because the leading man assumed room temperature?

[Liverpool]

Posted: 1/24/08 at 2:19pm

i loved 10 Things I Hate About You before it was cool.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 1/24/08 at 2:21pm

So did I, for the record.

But anyway, think about the old adages -- you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone, clarity in hindsight, etc. Maybe people always think these things, but you just don't hear about them until such adages become true.

[Jonny boy]

Posted: 1/24/08 at 2:23pm

When somebody dies everyone finds all the positives things that that person has done in thier life. I think its a good thing that people look back and see what he has contributed.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 1/24/08 at 2:23pm

It's sort of like, when, back in the late 80's, when someone died from AIDS, and no matter HOW big of a jerk they were in life, EVERYONE had a story about how they and the person who had passed were BFF's forever.

[StickToPriest]

Posted: 1/24/08 at 2:23pm

Well, he should have won. And that's all I'm sayin'.

But, then again, I'm A Brokeback fan so I'm clearly crazy and every single action I take in my life, both conscious and unconscious, is driven by my feelings for the film.

[robbiej]

Posted: 1/24/08 at 2:24pm

I brought up Chris Farley in another thread.

He was overbearing, annoying and, at times, mildly funny (the only thing he ever did that made me howl was be Mindy Cohen from the facts of life...and it really was the costume that made me laugh). But once he died, he became a comic genius. It was utterly bizarre to me.

[Jonny boy]

Posted: 1/24/08 at 2:25pm

^^^^ Beacuse he was a comic genius!

Sorry about the spelling=-)
Updated On: 1/24/08 at 02:25 PM

[robbiej]

Posted: 1/24/08 at 2:27pm

He may have been a comic genious...but certainly not a comic genius.

[StickToPriest]

Posted: 1/24/08 at 2:27pm

Well, actually, he was a cosmic genious.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 1/24/08 at 2:30pm

Yea...

"But, then again, I'm A Brokeback fan so I'm clearly crazy and every single action I take in my life, both conscious and unconscious, is driven by my feelings for the film."

[robbiej]

Posted: 1/24/08 at 2:34pm

So what if he did win? It doesn't change the fact that he then went on to make CASANOVA.

And what happens when Kim Basinger goes early? She's got the Oscar. Lord knows WHAT hyperbole is going to be spouted!

Updated On: 1/24/08 at 02:34 PM

[madbrian]

Posted: 1/24/08 at 2:34pm

Well, I own some artwork from a Russian artist who turns 80 this year. I truly love his work and I own four pieces by him. He is by no means a major artist, but I am curious to see if his works escalates in value when he dies. I google him from time to time, and his works currently go for $5k-$30k in galleries. Of course, I wish him no ill will, and I hope he lives a long, healthy life. Really, I do. Really.

[best12bars]

Posted: 1/24/08 at 2:36pm

It's only glamorized and romanticized if it's a life cut short... when someone dies in their prime, or when they're just getting started. People tend to fantasize about the possibilities of what might have been.

But when old people die, even hugely successful personalities, we expect it, even if it's a sudden event. The life is reflected upon, but it's no longer about the unfulfilled possibilities. It's about looking back on their achievements.

I thought Heath was "one of the greatest actors of his generation" BEFORE his death. I was expecting great things from him for many years to come.

I can't speak for others... but I didn't suddenly wake up, hear the news of his death, and decide he was a good actor.

[robbiej]

Posted: 1/24/08 at 2:38pm

I've got thirty issues of a brit magazine called ALL ABOUT BARBRA about...yes...Ms. Streisand. Apparently they're hard to come by and, randomly, some British guy who lived in my building at the time asked if I wanted them cause he didn't want to take them back to Britain. I said sure, since the boyfriend loves Babs. I then saw a couple of individual issues for sale at Colony for $65-75 a piece.

Tick tock, Barbra.

Tick tock.

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 1/24/08 at 2:39pm

Two words: Jonathan Larson.

[DG]

Posted: 1/24/08 at 2:39pm

"But when old people die, even hugely successful personalities, we expect it, even if it's a sudden event. The life is reflected upon, but it's no longer about the unfulfilled possibilities. It's about looking back on their achievements."

The trend can also work in reverse. Katherine Hepburn had been mythologized to the point of not bearing any resemblance to herself - and upon her death, the people swooped in to 'set the record straight'.

[robbiej]

Posted: 1/24/08 at 2:41pm

And poor Liz Taylor. Everything would have been fine if she died 30 years ago. Now people laugh at her.

[BigFatBlonde]

Posted: 1/24/08 at 2:41pm

Don't you people know your theatre. Haven't you seen House of Blue Leaves?

Celebrities are special people with magical qualites. When they die the stars in heaven realign and we are left to grieve over the loss of someone superhuman and far superior to our meager selves.

We bestow this honor to them because they entertain us.. which as any sane person knows is the most important thing a human being can do for another person.

They were placed here for us to worship, genuflect to... and when these gods suffer it more important than if we suffer...

Remember what Bunny says in House of Blue Leaves...

"Suffering? What do you know about suffering? You're a nobody and you suffer like a NOBODY?"

Updated On: 1/24/08 at 02:41 PM

[Unknown User]

Posted: 1/24/08 at 2:43pm

I was managing a record store when Frank Sinatra died. I was on vacation and called in an order for his CDs as soon as I heard. I will always remember the sales figures: the week BEFORE he died we sold a total of 3 Frank Sinatra CDs. The week he died, we sold 578.
Updated On: 1/24/08 at 02:43 PM

[iflitifloat]

Posted: 1/24/08 at 2:49pm

I once took care of a guy in his mid-40s who signed himself off of dialysis,which meant that once he stopped the treatments, he would die in two or three weeks. He had a bunch of medical problems, although none were inherently terminal, and his marriage was hanging by a thread. He tried to arrange a pre-death wake for himself so he could hear all the good stuff people had to say. Basically, everyone he ever knew was summoned to trudge through his hospital room. Truth be told, it devolved into a pretty bizarre situation that felt a tad manipulative and I'm not sure really lived up to anyone's hopes or expectations. Two or three weeks is out of the time frame where everyone iconizes the nearly dearly departed.

[PB ENT.]

Posted: 1/24/08 at 2:53pm

sorry, but dying just makes you dead and dead is definetly not better. If you are not a good actor, singer, or person when you are alive, then dead makes you no better, just more talked about.

[Ida Noodleman]

Posted: 1/24/08 at 2:54pm

And poor Liz Taylor. Everything would have been fine if she died 30 years ago. Now people laugh at her.

There's the answer, you have die young before your judgement fails and you end hanging around with Michael Jackson.

[Craig]

Posted: 1/24/08 at 2:55pm

It's also interesting when people refer to someone's death as tragic (such as Farley).

Chris Farley's death wasn't tragic. How he lived his life was tragic.

I know it's semantics.. but it hold true for those "canonized" in the media who were self destructive.

[Roninjoey]

Posted: 1/24/08 at 3:02pm

Isn't there a play on Broadway making fun of this tradition right now? :P

I agree with everything PJ said... especially that Heath Ledger was definitely a pretty well regarded actor. It's not like Ashton Kutcher dying or something...

I also sometimes think people rush to find their next artistic martyr. When somebody prominent dies young it marks your generation, in a way. A certain generation is marked by Lennon, another Kurt Cobain... you can go back as far as you want, to Gershwin, even Mozart. It's a reminder to us all that youth and life and culture and what seems important pass away. Even artists die. So we might as well celebrate the things they did that captured our time and generation.

I dunno if Heath Ledger is the best example for that sort of thing but still.