Why is American Idol against voice lessons?

[Over_the_Moon]

Posted: 10/9/05 at 12:34am

In an ad in a magazine awhile ago (I forget what or when), there was a picture of Fantasia and something along the lines of, "Never had a voice lesson in my life," like that was a really impressive thing.

And if anyone remembers Briana Davis from the last season (the girl that hit a high note singing Phantom), she mentioned that she had recently started taking voice lessons, and Paula says, "You don't need them, honey."

I thought voice was good for anyone to take no matter how talented they might be, not just for people that can't sing...

[ljay889]

Posted: 10/9/05 at 12:35am

It's quite obvious Fantasia has never had a voice lesson.

And I don't mean that in a good way!

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 10/9/05 at 12:41am

Because people without voice lessons are more likely to sound horrible, which leads those montages and hilarious reels of bad singers auditioning. Too many people make it in the music business without voice lessons, so I guess they see it as unnecessary for success.

At TWoP, they started calling Briana Davis (Phantom girl) "Rainbow Brightman". To this day, that still makes me laugh.

Updated On: 10/9/05 at 12:41 AM

[Prisoner 24601]

Posted: 10/9/05 at 12:49am

On my tivo or whatever the hell it is, it had a "Voice lesssons with Randy and Paula" show.

Updated On: 10/9/05 at 12:49 AM

[Over_the_Moon]

Posted: 10/9/05 at 12:50am

I don't understand how so many people are making it in mainstream music without any actual vocal talent.

I don't get how people actually enjoy listening to digitalized talk-singing over a cruddy guitar riff.

[MrMidwest]

Posted: 10/9/05 at 1:06am

It seems almost like they're trying to make the people who CAN sing sound digitized lately just so they can fit in.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 10/9/05 at 1:12am

See, now I read the Fantastia comment to say that she's proud to have this singing career, never having had a voice lesson. Not in terms of being "against" them or something, but just that she's lucky, or whatever.

Just me.

[Link Larkin Wanabe]

Posted: 10/9/05 at 1:12am

I know that when I auditioned for Canadian Idol, I made it past a few rounds, but the producers eventually told me that I sounded too "trained" and too "broadway", which is very funny since I have no training whatsoever and my voice has been called "too pop-ish" by some critics when I was in musicals. But still, they were very nice and supportive of me, which they definitely weren't to some of the other contestants.

Akiva

[hot_brdwy_diva]

Posted: 10/9/05 at 1:20am

Thats why I've yet to audition for AI. Everyone tells me I should but I just say "Why... so they can tell me I'm too broadway-ish?"

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 10/9/05 at 1:25am

I love how they use "too Broadway" as an insult on American Idol. I'd rather be too Broadway for American Idol than too American Idol to be on Broadway.

[thesparklingdiamond]

Posted: 10/9/05 at 2:28am

orangeskittles, I know! its so ironic that they use it like an insult, it pisses me off when I watch it. I completley agree with your comment on rather sounding too broadway for them than too pop-ish for broadway. I don't know about that show...for me its like I listen to so many cast recodings that have such strong talent that I'll watch that show and think....what is this?

[iflitifloat]

Posted: 10/9/05 at 8:02am

The style of singing that seems to be most revered on American Idol often tends not to use the voice in a polished or healthy manner. But certainly, trained singers have also made it into the finals. Both Constantine and Anwar had training, and it showed.

I took Paula's comment to be more idiotic babble than representing an anti-training philosophy. But by the same token, it's very clear that she, herself, was never a serious student of music r voice, because her assessments of the candidates shout that out loud and clear every time.

[NYBroadwayNY]

Posted: 10/9/05 at 8:11am

NOT that I agree with this, but you have to understand that, mostly, the music business, that is, pop, rap, alternative, etc..., ar NOT interested in real talent. They want DIFFERENT. They search for that LOOK or SOUND or QUALITY that is different from the norm.

Posted: 10/9/05 at 9:26am

They are not really against singing lesson per se...I think they are against sounding like a Broadway person - and if you are a male singer, big no/no - that was Simon's big problem with Clay

"You sang that too Broadway"

in other words..

"You sang that way too gay"..

All a good singing lesson should do is teach you where to breath and where to place tone, if needed...vowels and and heavy duty stuff most singers going on "American Idol" don't need...

Updated On: 10/9/05 at 09:26 AM

[Plum]

Posted: 10/9/05 at 10:45am

NOT that I agree with this, but you have to understand that, mostly, the music business, that is, pop, rap, alternative, etc..., ar NOT interested in real talent. They want DIFFERENT. They search for that LOOK or SOUND or QUALITY that is different from the norm.

And here I thought they were looking for the next clone of a clone of a clone.

Anyway, if you're sensing an anti-voice lesson sentiment, I wouldn't be surprised. There's a certain school of thought (you see it in punk rock, for instance) that says that any formal music education ruins you, because music is supposed to come from the heart, or some such thing. As if learning technique impairs your expressivity. Any classical musician with half a brain knows that isn't true, but people seem to find the savant of sorts to be a more interesting story.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 10/9/05 at 10:58am

This comes up constantly here - and for the millionth time, calling someone "too Broadway" on American Idol is NOT an insult. It's a FACT. It is not a competition to find Broadway singers. It's like auditioning for a Broadway musical with a pop score and getting cut because your voice/style is too legit.

[ljay889]

Posted: 10/9/05 at 1:00pm

I think we're able to find more trained singers in the R&B genre, opposed to the pop & rock genre.

The late Aaliyah - had extensive training in voice, dance, and even acting. She went to a top performing arts High School, and She also continued to train throughout her career, and up until her death.

And did that hurt her from being a big star in the music world? Not at all.

Now THAT was talent. And I know of plenty of other glorious voices in this genre - that may not be popular - but have lovely trained voices.

[Over_the_Moon]

Posted: 10/9/05 at 1:04pm

Sounding "too Broadway" and being trained in vocal performance are not the same thing.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 10/9/05 at 2:49pm

Rath, when it's used by Simon, "too Broadway" it's quite often a euphemism for "too gay". I figured that out during one audition when he said it to one guy that didn't sound anything like the Broadway style, but was definitely had an effeminate style to his singing.

I understand what you mean about Broadway styles being different than pop music; I'm not expecting the next Carol Channing to come off of a reality show. But considering how often the judges use this statement when it isn't appropriate, it makes me wonder if any of them have even heard a Broadway singer.

Updated On: 10/9/05 at 02:49 PM

[Elphaba]

Posted: 10/9/05 at 2:56pm

am I the only one who finds this show ridiculous?

[JayKid]

Posted: 10/9/05 at 3:15pm

I agree with what Rath said... it's not a comp to find Broadway singers, whether they are good or not. They don't want to hear that style, it doesn't fit them comp.

Also, going with what someone said about it taking the expressiveness away, it is like that in a lot of music sometimes. That raw, untrained emotion is something many styles of music look for and once you get trained, it isn't there. It is a big rock and punk thing...

Also, in Jazz it is a big thing too since originally a lot of Jazz wasn't really made up of composed music or played by literate musicians. I wouldn't doubt that it was the same for many Jazz musicians, being too literate means you were less a musician or something. However, it's obviously not true and Jazz evolved, cuz look at Swing in the later eras of Jazz. That's greatly literate and composed music (you have to compose music for a huge band like that) and it's still amazing jazz.

So it's the same for other musics... for some reason being untrained gives you that raw edge and expression trained musicians don't have. It's not necessarily true, but seems like it is the idea behind it. Music will evolve tho and maybe the more popular music will be more trained in style. And you won't have pop, rock and punk singers (and others) untrained... maybe being trained will be a good thing. Who knows.

Anyway, sorry for the lengthy response. That's all I have to say about this lol.

But on the topic of AI - the first episodes are hilarious, I love them!

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 10/9/05 at 3:17pm

Elphaba, actually, I watch it just so I can participate in the boards at Television Without Pity. I don't like it for it's original purpose, I like it because it's so easy to make fun of.

[BabyJohn]

Posted: 10/9/05 at 3:32pm

There are those pop singers that think voice lessons take away from your natural tone.