A Tale of Two Cities will play Al Hirschfeld Theater- Page 8

[Eagleman]

Posted: 6/26/08 at 12:10am

How would allowing potential patrons to down load 30 seconds of, let's say,
"Younger than Springtime" and another 30 seconds of "Some Enchanted Evening"
be tantamount to putting up every song in "South Pacific"?

Offering the OCS is good business but, again, I've never seen it done in the run up to a show yet.

I received a C.D. of Bombay Dreams in the mail that had five or six brief snippets of the score but not almost 90 minutes of music.

It turns out, that was a desperation move on the part of the Really Useful Group and ALW.

From a marketing and P.R. standpoint this is not a good sign.

If you want to see how vids should be used on a website, check out Jersey Boys.


Updated On: 6/26/08 at 12:10 AM

[philly03]

Posted: 6/26/08 at 12:21am

"Offering the OCS is good business but, again, I've never seen it done in the run up to a show yet. "

Have you lived under a rock?
Jesus Christ Superstar, EVITA and Chess all started as Concept Albums and all became big international hits (with the exception of Chess over here).

Frank Wildhorn did the unthinkable--he released TWO concept albums of Jekyll & HYDE, one 7 years before the show even made it to Broadway. The Scarlet Pimpernel's was released 5 years before it opened, and the Civil War's a few months.

It may actually be for the better, considering that both SP and Jekyll & HYDE had/still have (J&H atleast) huge fan bases, which helped those shows run their length, no doubt.


"I received a C.D. of Bombay Dreams in the mail that had five or six brief snippets of the score but not almost 90 minutes of music. It turns out, that was a desperation move on the part of the Really Useful Group and ALW."

Lloyd Webber has done that for a while, I believe starting with Aspects, and then a Beautiful Game one, Bombay did, and Woman in White also had one. Phantom started it's "public" life with 3 music videos. It's just a sampler to try to get people to buy tickets/buzz up the show. Do you really think Lloyd Webber needs to do ANYTHING out of desperation?

[philly03]

Posted: 6/26/08 at 8:16pm

I know thats Barbour & Jessica I think...but whose the one on the far right? (I couold be a complete idiot for asking that)

And who exactly do they play...what are their character names (another IDIOT question...but the site says practically NOTHING besides Toro being Mme.)

[Eris0303]

Posted: 6/26/08 at 8:56pm

Barbour is Sydney and that is not Jessica Rush. I forget her name but she's an ensemble member who was playing a "lady of the evening" in that part. And the "guy on the right" is Derek Keeling. He played Charles but he'll be starting as Danny in Grease on July 22.

Updated On: 6/26/08 at 08:56 PM

[Eagleman]

Posted: 6/26/08 at 9:33pm

"Have you lived under a rock? Jesus Christ Superstar, EVITA and Chess all started as Concept Albums and all became big international hits (with the exception of Chess over here)."

Rule #1: Never asked a question you don't the answer to.

You should have asked "Did you know many shows started off as a Concept Album and went on to become great international hits? To which my answer would have been,

"Yes."

Now I should like to ask you somethng: were these scores even as concept albums given away for nothing? I remember paying for "Chess" and knowing Andrew Lloyd Webber is a bit tightfisted, I don't believe he gave away an entire concept album.

The french concert album for Les Mis was a two disc set that cost $30.00. Why didn't they just pay for a mailing list and send out 5,000 copies.

I believe you're missing the point: they are gambling that the response they received in Sarasota parlayed with the mixed reviews from Variety (which was taken completely out of context) and the ovationary responses of patrons who saw the show in Florida are eniugh to take it to Broadway--and yet they are laying out 60-70% of the score for potential audiences on their website.

As I said, in the hundreds of shows that have come and gone since the internet became a powerful tool to exchange information, I have yet to see ONE show that
let the audience hear in advance, without making a purchase, the foundartion of the score.

I'm sorry. It just doesn't add up to me. And there must be a reason why it's such an out of the box marketing strategy.

Again, look at the Jersey Boy's website. How many complete songs do you get to sample?

That strategy has worked phenomenally well now for 12 years. Why are these guys going way over the top?


Updated On: 6/27/08 at 09:33 PM

[philly03]

Posted: 6/26/08 at 10:04pm

Eagleman...you're making very little sense.

"Rule #1: Never asked a question you don't the answer to."
Who do you think you are?

"Now I should like to ask you somethng: were these scores even as concept albums given away for nothing? I remember paying for "Chess" and knowing Andrew Lloyd Webber is a bit tightfisted, I don't believe he gave away an entire concept album."
Considering that albums cost money to make, produce, etc. why would you give it away for free? Also usually some of the proceeds (though extremely minimal) go towards the shows investment needs. Again why give away for free when you could charge for it.

And you onyl get 2 songs for free from the wesbite? Unless I'm completely missing it. You can order the concept album for money. And if I'm wrong please show me a link where I can get the whole concept album for free.

And besides of the two songs, you're essentially getting one song--"Until Tomorrow" resembles LES MIS way too much and anyone whose seen Les Mis will tell you that.

"Again, look at the Jersey Boy's website. How many complete songs do you get to sample?

That strategy has worked phenomenally well now for 12 years. Why are these guys going way over the top? "

Are you saying since the birth of the internet? 12 years ago Andrew Lloyd Webber/Ron Bohmer allowed 3 songs from Sunset BLVD. national tour promo (which I think you had to pay for), SUNSET BOULEVARD, AS IF WE NEVER SAID GOODBYE, and WITH ONE LOOK.

Jersey boys has only been around for 3 years if that's what you were getting at...I don't think we understand each other.

[bwaybabe2]

Posted: 6/27/08 at 3:55am

"Last I heard which was a week ago, Natalie Toro was still in the cast."
Thanks, Poppy, for this info...I am very happy that Natalie is still in, inspite of what else was stated on this board. Are your sources good...?
Too bad about Alex, because I was looking forward to seeing him in Broadway :[

BTW, I own the concept CD, and EVERYONE that has heard it (including real musicians)has given it huge aclaim. The score by itself, and then incorporated into the show, are two different concepts. When you see these songs interpreted by live performers in musical theater, they take a life all their own.
I've heard music from many shows, without actually having seen the show. I've loved the music, but it was a totally different experience, when I musical theater actor performed it and there was a set and atmosphere to enrich it.
I think that, until everyone sees the show, comparisons to other previous musical theater epics should be kept on hold.
And, I see nothing wrong with producing, or marketing for this show...as a matter of fact, I think their strategies are very intelligent, as obviously, they worked in Sarasota very nicely. They are doing other things for Broadway that are even smarter, IMHO, and I cannot wait to see the final product that will be Broadway's Tale

[Eagleman]

Posted: 6/27/08 at 1:44pm

"Do you really think Lloyd Webber needs to do ANYTHING out of desperation?"

He's human. Absolutely.

He had a tremendous emotional investment in Bombay /dreams because if it went belly-up, he would have had a large part in the composer, who he greatly, respected, incurring a blemish on an otherwise stellar reputation.

Now, here's my question: do you think great wealth and a track record of great success insulates an individual from taking desperate measures?

Nobody in the arts feels anything less than despair when the project they have been
working on for years is in deep trouble. Elton John dropped everything and came to New York to try to save "Lestat". The author was disconsolate.

Enough said.

[philly03]

Posted: 6/27/08 at 4:25pm

""Do you really think Lloyd Webber needs to do ANYTHING out of desperation?"

He's human. Absolutely.

He had a tremendous emotional investment in Bombay /dreams because if it went belly-up, he would have had a large part in the composer, who he greatly, respected, incurring a blemish on an otherwise stellar reputation."

If he cared about how his shows fare over here (which I don't really think he does...it's not really his money he's gambaling), then his last hit would have been 2005, not 1987. Everything has flopped after Phantom of the Opera, even though Starlight came close. It's too bad but it's a business.

And this part:
"He had a tremendous emotional investment in Bombay /dreams because if it went belly-up, he would have had a large part in the composer, who he greatly, respected, incurring a blemish on an otherwise stellar reputation.

Now, here's my question: do you think great wealth and a track record of great success insulates an individual from taking desperate measures? "

Really confuses me. You know Lloyd Webber didn't compose Bombay, correct? His credits are like some of Tim Rice's in Chess.
"Based Upon An Idea by Andrew Lloyd Webber"
And it's also one of the only shows (out of maybe 4) that he self-produced.

"he would have had a large part in the composer"
That makes no sense? He did not influence the other composer at all -- just gave him the idea.

[Eagleman]

Posted: 6/27/08 at 11:24pm

Forget the credits. Lloyd webber had been sinking like a stone since Sunset Boulevard". It was one stillborn show after another--The Woman in White, The Greatest Game, Whistle Down the Wind, and Jeeves.

Here are some excerpts from LLoyd-Weber in the "Bombay Dreams" playbill:

(This addresses his introduction to the legendary Hindu composer who was considered the "Mozart" of that part of the world

"I met him two years ago. Since then it has become my obsession to bring this melodic genius to the West End musical stage.

"In Rahman I met someone who I believe could carry the torch of musical theatre into a new dimension," he said.

"His music might give musical theatre in London the shot in the arm it needs at the moment."

Of course, I know ALW wasn't the composer, he was a theatrical midwife who would'
be introduced to the world by the RUG and the show would change musical theater as we knew it.

When it didn't even resonate with hindus in New York, Andrew was desperate to save the show if only to spare this man he truly respected any loss of reputation.

I don't care who you are, when a show goes bellyup it has an effect on even the most untouchable artist. Suddenly, Mel Brooks doesn't look so golden.

All I'm saying is, the people behind this show are employing a marketing plan I've never seen before: "Go to the website and listen to most of the music. See if you like it."

I think it's risky and that they stand more to lose from it than they gain.

Some months ago a play called "Eurydice" played at the Second Stage. There were a few stills from the show and the predictable out of context raves. I plunged for four tickets. It looked interesting. Had they given me 45 minutes of the show on the website, I would have passed and gone to dinner at Chez Josephine.

On the other hand "White Christmas" just gave you just enough to say, "It might be fun".

I'm criticising the marketing of the show which is not the same as criticising the show itself. Clearly, it was sufficient on the merits to get it to Broadway but what sells in Sarasota in terms of marketing doesn't always fly in the Big Apple.

I do hope, however, they rethink Until Tomorrow. That song, as written, can irreperably wound the show. Rogers and Hammerstein knew the end
of Oklahoma's first act had to be completely reworked. And the rest is Broadway history.


Updated On: 6/30/08 at 11:24 PM

[philly03]

Posted: 6/27/08 at 11:52pm

"Forget the credits. Lloyd webber had been sinking like a stone since Sunset Boulevard". It was one stillborn show after another--The Woman in White, The Greatest Game, Whistle Down the Wind, and Jeeves."
Jeeves came before Sunset Boulevard. About 15-20 years.
"The Greatest Game" is called "The Beautiful Game" and that's just an around bad idea.
The Woman in White was not a flop in London, and certainly one of my favourite shows in a while. It was innovative and his score does not disappoint with that musical. It's not his fault Sonia Friedman has NO idea what the Winter season is hear.
And Whistle Down the Wind has some slight potential. Not a lot, but it's got some keepers in there!

"All I'm saying is, the people behind this show are employing a marketing plan I've never seen before: "Go to the website and listen to most of the music. See if you like it." "

Since when is TWO downloads, and a brief couple of seconds of another un-named song in the video give you MOST of the music? Honestly, would you like to answer that this time? You keep saying it yet I only see that you can listen to 2 complete songs -- which is hopefully not the entire score.


"I do hope, however, they rethink Until Tomorrow. That song, as written, can irreperably wound the show. Rogers and Hammerstein knew the end of Oklahoma's
first act had to be completely reworked. And the rest is Broadway history. "

Why? The critics are going to LOVE to entirely smash this song. (AHHA) This just proves that the writer loves LES MIS. They should think about a lyric change or two on a couple of numbers!

[esparza 333]

Posted: 6/29/08 at 8:40am

It is Maria Friedman not Sonia

[philly03]

Posted: 6/29/08 at 2:55pm

Sonia Friedman is Maria's sister, and was the main producer for The Woman in White.

[Eagleman]

Posted: 6/30/08 at 12:51am

Re:"Honestly, How would you like to answer that one?"

How do I listen to more than two clips. Unless things have changed since Monday, i go to the website click on "Sights and Sounds", click on sounds and this is what you see. I listened to what seemed like 45 minutes of music.

"Below is a list of songs that appear in the show and on the concept recording of the new musical. They are broken down by their order in the play. Please select a song title to read its lyrics and listen to a sound sample."

Act 1
The Way It Ought to Be
The Shadows of the Night
It Won't Be Long
Up In the Garret
Who Are You
You'll Never Be Alone
No Honest Way
The Trial
Reflection
The Promise
All In My Mind
Round and Round
Resurrection Man
Out of Sight, Out of Mind
If Dreams Came True
Until Tomorrow
Act 2
The Tale
Little One
No One Else
The Bluff
Without a Word
Let Her Be a Child
Finale [Part 1]
Finale / I Can't Recall [Part 2]

When I click on a song, I am then told that I can listen to the full song. I understand
someof these will be cut and others added in their place.

But the lyrics are there and I'm taking the webmaster at his word: he said they were
thecomplete song and theclock seems to suggest they are.

Hey, maybe it's a perk of having an iMac instead of a PC.

Now it's my turn to ask you a question: Would you like to ask me questions about a particular song--let's say the opening song "The Way it Ought to be" or "No One Else" in Act 2?

Are you suggesting the 24 complete songs available on the website have all been cut? I think five or six have. But have at it: I haven't bought the c.d. set so everything I can tell you is listening from the website.

For instance, the opening song begins with Madame Defarge singing. Before Ernest Defarge sings the second verse there is dialog between two men about Dr. Manet and how he wound up in the Bastille for 17 years."

It concludes with Sidney Carton discussing his view of the world the way he wants it to be with a character whose name escapes me. Interspersed with his singing is
dialogue and then he polishes off the opening song.

His approach to this song is very much like that of the drunken member of Enjolas'
crew in Les Mis. He's a bit drunk and rough around the edges.

Again, maybe I've just got a really special computer. You hear only two clips. I get 15 complete songs at,

http://www.talemusical.com/sounds.php

Go figure.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 6/30/08 at 1:07am

And the entire cast is STILL TBA?

[bwaybabe2]

Posted: 6/30/08 at 2:47am

Sueleen...I wonder why you and some others care so much about the cast TBA. Is it because people just can't wait to see if a certain cast member is announced, so they they then can begin the avalanche of idle and incredibly ridiculous comments about him and his casting?
Sorry, but I really get reved up about how ignorant people can make themselves be, and how they take away from what is really important...having a top notch production of a show, to start with.
I think the producers are capable and wise enough to bring us a top notch cast as well, don't worry...obviously they want the best for their production, and for it to succedd. With this in mind, the disclosure of the cast should not have to be such an issue, then :{

[Eris0303]

Posted: 6/30/08 at 8:47am

Maybe we're just curious. Rehearsals start two weeks from today. It's about time for a cast announcement.

Updated On: 6/30/08 at 08:47 AM

[philly03]

Posted: 6/30/08 at 11:17am

Because NATALIE TORO could finally return to Broadway :)!

And I think everyone is just as curious if they decide to cast James Barbour or not...based off of the previous events.

And thankyou Eagleman...I had no idea about that no wonder I kept looking at you like you had 83738778 heads.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 6/30/08 at 1:05pm

Bwaybabe2, some people actually buy tickets based on the cast. For instance, I know people who would not go near Gypsy because either Bernadette or Patti was playing Rose. I know people who could not wait to see Spamalot until Clay was announced.

And why do we know the leading cast for nearly all shows opening on Broadway next season, but 2 Cities has yet to announce ONE cast member?

[Cartwheel]

Posted: 6/30/08 at 2:51pm

" I know people who could not wait to see Spamalot until Clay was announced. "

Morons.

I can understand Bernadette or Patti because they've been around for a while, and if you've seen them in other roles, you'd have an idea of what to expect in Gypsy. But making assumptions about a new guy before he even sets a foot on stage is just stupid. Everyone was a newbie at one point.

[Eagleman]

Posted: 7/4/08 at 1:37pm

What took them so long to announce (or sign) a director? I understand he was the choreographer in thr Sarasota show, so he knows the piece. But why didn't Michael Edwards who directed the original--which seems to have met with some promising reviews-- do the show himself? I realize he has his plate full as the Artistic Director of the Asolo Rep but he can't have a busier schedule than Frank Galati of Steppenwolf or Des McAnuff and these veteren directors follow the show from conception to opening night on Broadway.

Is he ill? Were there contractual issues? If the show is as good as many have said why would Edwards step out? He's big-time having staged works for the Met Opera.
This is the third directorial change the show has had since 2004.

Anybody know what's going on?

I'm sorry if I'm not thinking like a fan of the show here; I'm looking through the lens
of an investor (not of this show) but in a general sense.

I've always found such 11th-hour announcements a bit unsettling.

I suppose the counterargument is that every director has his first time on Broadway
but I wonder if the announcement took so long because Edwards was going to do it but couldn't or the people behind this show were looking for a different director but couldn't land him--or her.

Updated On: 7/4/08 at 01:37 PM

[RentBoy86]

Posted: 7/4/08 at 1:52pm

Is the marquee up yet?

[Eris0303]

Posted: 7/4/08 at 3:37pm

Warren was officially announced as director back in April and I had heard about him becoming director around the same time the show announced its Broadway run in March.

I've heard two things about Edwards not being kept on as director. One is that he wanted to stay in Florida and work with the Asolo. Two is that his style of directing didn't sit well with the cast and producers.

[Eagleman]

Posted: 7/5/08 at 2:32pm

If either one of those explanations is true, that's really troubling.

The guy rescued a show that was stagnating and made it appealing enough that
investors felt confident enough to bring it to Broadway. Mike Nichols aside, I can't think of a director who would pass up a chance to bring what could be a good musical to Broadway.

And as far as producers not liking his directing style?

They'd have to REALLY have problems with the guy to opt for a first-time Broadway-Bound director over a proven commodity who was regarded highly enough to direct two pieces for the Met Opera--which some might think is a
step up from regional theater in Sarasota.

[johnnyg]

Posted: 7/6/08 at 1:27am

Nobody rescued a show that was stagnating. The producers quietly raised all of the money to come to B'way and were fully capitalized before the show even opened at the Asolo. And you can Google "Michael Reidel Asolo" if you're interested in a few of the reports that surfaced from the production down there. He's pretty accurate in a gossipy way. As someone who knows all the parties involved, please trust me, all things have worked out for the best - and in the best interest of the show.