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#1

A Wicked inconsistency

Posted: 7/30/05 at 1:56am

Please note that this post is a spoiler, so if for any unknown reason you have been hiding under a rock and you still don't know the plot of the show and prefer to be surprised, get out of here fast. Otherwise, read on . . .

The actor who plays the Witch's father is white, but then in the end when it turns out the Wizard is the guy who fathered Elphaba, there is no explanation as to how he managed to change from a white guy into an african-american (Ben Vereen). And we all know the Wizard isn't really a wizard so he couldn't have transformed himself!

Shouldn't the casting people have picked up on that one and cast an african-american actor as the Witch's daddy?

If I misunderstood and the Wizard is not Elphaba's father (I was hungover the day I saw the show), or if I slept through the part when some sorcerer performs the racial transformation in a dazzling musical number with maybe a really cool flying effect, I apologize and shall stand corrected.

Other than that, I loved the show!
The meat is always leaner on somebody else's dinner plate!
#2

re: A Wicked inconsistency

Posted: 7/30/05 at 2:02am

If you are old enough to drink, you should be old enough...nevermind.

Here it is, the Wicthe's Father is NOT Elphaba's father.

If you are referring to the guy during NOMtW ("have another drink...") then I thought they have a black actor doing it instead of usualy Fiyero. But if not, you aren't supposed to see him anyway.

And there was a black Mme. Thenardier, a white Thenardier, and Eponine (their daughter) was asian.

Love the theatre!

SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF my friend.


Plus, it is the almighty Ben Vereen, who is Judas...so I am sure he was given the power of color change. Like a chameleon.
Mama Korey

The Beauty Is: Kelli O'Hara Online

Updated On: 7/30/05 at 02:02 AM

#3

re: A Wicked inconsistency

Posted: 7/30/05 at 2:02am

If the guy that her mom cheats on him with is White and then the Wizard is Black I can see what you mean. But if the White guy that plays her father (the one that rolls Nessa into Shiz university) is White that doesn't really make a difference cause he's not her dad biologically. Make sense?

ETA: I meant I can see why you'd be confused. But true, the previous poster is right in saying you're not really supposed to see the "have another drink" guy.

Updated On: 7/30/05 at 02:02 AM

#4

re: A Wicked inconsistency

Posted: 7/30/05 at 2:04am

Elphaba's 'father' in the Broadway show is Sean McCourt. In the show, he is married to Elphaba's mother who obviously has her in the opening number. If you also recall in the opening number there is a traveling salesman. That is the wizard at a young age. The traveling salesman part is always played by the person playing Fyero at that perf. I hope that clears it up. Sometimes it is a mulit-racial wizard, but with no face revealed, the audience rarely picks up on it.
#5

re: A Wicked inconsistency

Posted: 7/30/05 at 2:13am

I just saw Wicked a few weeks ago, and the "lover" who fathers Elphaba was, indeed, played by an African-American actor. I was in the 6th row Orchestra and have seen the show 9 times, so I was paying attention.
"Be on your guard! Jerks on the loose!"

http://www.roches.com/television/ss83kod.html

**********

"If any relationship involves a flow chart, get out of it...FAST!"

~ Best12Bars
#6

re: A Wicked inconsistency

Posted: 7/30/05 at 2:21am

Here's a Wicked inconsistency that has always stumped me. If the Wizard was Elphaba's father, and if he never had any power, why does Madame Morrible say that Elphaba had powers because she was born of both worlds. I don't get it. The Wizard didn't have any powers, and evidently, neither did her mom. What gives? What are the two worlds?
#7

re: A Wicked inconsistency

Posted: 7/30/05 at 2:26am

Her mom was from OZ. Not to say she was very powerful, but I guess when two different worlds collide, the results could prove interesting.

Willfull suspension of disbelief...this is theatre people, just run with it.
#8

re: A Wicked inconsistency

Posted: 7/30/05 at 2:26am

JoMarch, That has always bugged me too. I mean, Elphaba is from Munchkinland (according to the novel) and the Wizard is from KANSAS! So...?
"Be on your guard! Jerks on the loose!"

http://www.roches.com/television/ss83kod.html

**********

"If any relationship involves a flow chart, get out of it...FAST!"

~ Best12Bars
#9

re: A Wicked inconsistency

Posted: 7/30/05 at 2:34am

Kansas is in the United States, which is the world we all live in. Oz isn't part of this same world.
"How do you like THAT 'misanthropic panache,' Mr. Goldstone?" - PalJoey
#10

re: A Wicked inconsistency

Posted: 7/30/05 at 2:36am

She's a product of the po-dunk regions of both worlds! Of course she's magic! (No offense to those residing in either Kansas OR Munchkinland.)
#11

re: A Wicked inconsistency

Posted: 7/30/05 at 2:38am

We ALL live in the United States???? Huh????
"Be on your guard! Jerks on the loose!"

http://www.roches.com/television/ss83kod.html

**********

"If any relationship involves a flow chart, get out of it...FAST!"

~ Best12Bars
#12

re: A Wicked inconsistency

Posted: 7/30/05 at 2:41am

Who said everyone lives in the United States? You can't be referring to my comment. I said, "Kansas is in the United States, which is the world we all live in."

If you were referring to me, and you don't live in the same world as the United States, I apologize.
"How do you like THAT 'misanthropic panache,' Mr. Goldstone?" - PalJoey
#13

re: A Wicked inconsistency

Posted: 7/30/05 at 2:42am

zoran912, Thank you for finally explaining it to me. Perfect! Even my husband--genius that he is--couldn't give me a logical OR witty answer to this head-scratcher. I know he will enjoy your response as well (and perhaps be a little jealous that he didn't think of it first!) re: A Wicked inconsistency
"Be on your guard! Jerks on the loose!"

http://www.roches.com/television/ss83kod.html

**********

"If any relationship involves a flow chart, get out of it...FAST!"

~ Best12Bars
#14

re: A Wicked inconsistency

Posted: 7/30/05 at 2:46am

The Whole Show Is Inconsistent. Get Used To It!
#15

re: A Wicked inconsistency

Posted: 7/30/05 at 2:50am

BwayLeadman, You are absolutely right. But that line Madame Morrible utters about the "two worlds" irks me. It just jolts me out of my willful suspension of disbelief. Lots of things don't make sense in the arts, and I'm okay with that (for the most part). re: A Wicked inconsistency
"Be on your guard! Jerks on the loose!"

http://www.roches.com/television/ss83kod.html

**********

"If any relationship involves a flow chart, get out of it...FAST!"

~ Best12Bars
#16

re: A Wicked inconsistency

Posted: 7/30/05 at 2:52am

I don't understand why you're irked, miss pennywise. Oz is not a part of the world that we're in. The world that Kansas is in. Actually, the wizard isn't from Kansas. He's from Nebraska. Also part of this world. The world in which Oz is not.
"How do you like THAT 'misanthropic panache,' Mr. Goldstone?" - PalJoey
#17

re: A Wicked inconsistency

Posted: 7/30/05 at 2:57am

Glad to be of service, Miss Pennywise!

Stop trying, Kringas. I think you're just confusing her further. It's not you. I understand completely what you are saying, but I believe it to be a lost cause.
#18

re: A Wicked inconsistency

Posted: 7/30/05 at 2:58am

All right. Thanks, Zoran. I thought it might be due to my lack of sobriety this evening.
"How do you like THAT 'misanthropic panache,' Mr. Goldstone?" - PalJoey
#19

re: A Wicked inconsistency

Posted: 7/30/05 at 3:01am

Look, this is not really important. It's a verrrrrry minor point. I still love the show.

But since you seem to be unwilling to let it go...I don't understand the logic behind Morrible's line. I don't get how someone who is from the United States and someone who is from Oz produces someone with so much "power."

It's just a dramatic line and I think we have to leave it at that, don't you?
"Be on your guard! Jerks on the loose!"

http://www.roches.com/television/ss83kod.html

**********

"If any relationship involves a flow chart, get out of it...FAST!"

~ Best12Bars
#20

re: A Wicked inconsistency

Posted: 7/30/05 at 3:04am

No, it's not a dramatic line. It's quite literal. Oz is not a a part of the world the wizard is from. It has nothing to do with the United States. It has to do with this being a totally, completely, utterly different world. In a nutshull, Elphaba's mother screwed someone from another planet.
"How do you like THAT 'misanthropic panache,' Mr. Goldstone?" - PalJoey
#21

re: A Wicked inconsistency

Posted: 7/30/05 at 3:07am

Hehe...this is getting really amusing. I'm going to have to stop trying to intervene. Too funny!
#22

re: A Wicked inconsistency

Posted: 7/30/05 at 3:23am

Kringas, you don't understand what I'm asking, so let's back up to JoMarch's post:

Here's a Wicked inconsistency that has always stumped me. If the Wizard was Elphaba's father, and if he never had any power, why does Madame Morrible say that Elphaba had powers because she was born of both worlds. I don't get it. The Wizard didn't have any powers, and evidently, neither did her mom. What gives? What are the two worlds?

I, not being a moron, comprehend that there ARE two different "worlds," but--like the above poster--I do not see how this "powerless" conjugal combination equals "witch with extraordinary powers." Read JoMarch's post...that is what I was responding to.

As you so eloquently put it, "Elphaba's mother screwed someone from another planet." Again, why does this necessarily mean that the product of such a union would be "powerful"?

And zoran912, since you are enjoying this so much and YOU understand it, please shed some light on the situation. re: A Wicked inconsistency

Honestly, some people get awfully touchy about the pettiest of points. I don't even really care about this...and I'm sober. I must be really bored. Time to do something else! re: A Wicked inconsistency
"Be on your guard! Jerks on the loose!"

http://www.roches.com/television/ss83kod.html

**********

"If any relationship involves a flow chart, get out of it...FAST!"

~ Best12Bars
#23

re: A Wicked inconsistency

Posted: 7/30/05 at 3:29am

Oh, I'm not getting touchy, but I don't think it's a petty point. In the world of the book and the musical, it made Elphaba who she is. That's pretty important.

And I know you're not an idiot. Perhaps I wasn't being clear, either.

This is always how I've interpreted it - It's not that people from this world or the world that Oz is in that have such great powers. It's the the combination of those two worlds in Elphaba that made her what she was. And in the book, it's not so much about the magic as it is about the color of her skin. You have someone from our world with our DNA and someone from OZ's word with their DNA (or whatever it might be called). You mix them together and poof! You get a green child that's got some wacky powers.
"How do you like THAT 'misanthropic panache,' Mr. Goldstone?" - PalJoey
#24

re: A Wicked inconsistency

Posted: 7/30/05 at 3:32am

I'll shed some light.

IT'S A F*CKING MUSICAL, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!

Suspension of disbelief, people! First rule of theatre, come on!

Don't probe so deeply into it. It's a plot hole, yes. They don't tell us why she is so powerful. She just is. It lets her fly during defying gravity, which is the main reason people buy tickets to the show. It makes money! CASH COW!!! ELPHABA IS A CASH COW!!!

She isn't real! Does that shed any light on the situation for you?
#25

re: A Wicked inconsistency

Posted: 7/30/05 at 3:34am

The whole thing is just weird and nonsensical. No need to try to understand it :0)
-Anyone want to turn anarchist with me?

"Bless you and all who know you, oh wise and penguined one." ~YouWantItWhen????

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