A Wicked inconsistency- Page 2

[uncageg]

Posted: 7/30/05 at 9:45am

I think if you have read the book, the show will make more sense. Just my opinion.

[marvin2]

Posted: 7/30/05 at 10:11am

I always thought the wizard was from Chicago...

[uncageg]

Posted: 7/30/05 at 11:48am

I thought he was from Wizconsin....

[JMVR]

Posted: 7/30/05 at 1:17pm

Thanks everyone! Yes, I meant the "traveling salesman" when I referred to the Witch's father, i meant "biological father". The night I went i swear the actor who played the "have another drink" guy was white and I swear Ben Vereen was black, maybe one of them changed colors later or something but I know what i saw and I am telling ya, they didn't match.

[Thenardier]

Posted: 7/30/05 at 1:25pm

Well, Ben Vereen still is black, so that wasn't a lighting effect.

Let it go, this happens. The color of the skin shouldn't matter #1. #2, you aren't even supposed to see the traveling salesman's face.

In the end, is it really a big deal? As I said, a white man and a black woman produced an Asian child in Les Mis. I know it's France, but the wine doesn't make things THAT crazy.

Mis Pennywise - let it go and accept it. Consider Nebraska and Oz to be two different dimensions. The clashing of dimensions can have a crazy affect on someone.

But if you are willing to accept that the clashing of these two worlds and the green vile turned a girl green, accept that she also gained some power.

[ElphabaRose]

Posted: 7/30/05 at 2:49pm

The characters Wizard and the Witch's Father are two different people. The character "the Witch's Father" is not her real father. Also, when George Hern was the Wizard, David Ayers did the dancing. Now a black actor does it (I heard that it was Ben himself, but I don't know for sure).

[defygravity2]

Posted: 7/30/05 at 3:10pm

In LA, the person playing Fiyero did not dance the role of the traveling salesman (for obvious reasons)....it was one of the ensemble guys.

The biggest problem with inconsistencies in the musical (story wise) is the whole Fiyero role. The roles in the movie/book/musical are so very different! The musical Fiyero does NOT at match up with the scarecrow in the movie. The novel got it right, but I understand the musical is just trying to neatly package it all together.

I take it all in stride-it's meant to be a fun, CLEAN musical...that's why I love it. And that's why it didn't win the Tony award...now please don't send me hate mail or start an Ave. Q vs Wicked tangent...there are old postings for that. I'm stepping off my soapbox now.

[JoMarch]

Posted: 7/30/05 at 3:20pm

"I take it all in stride-it's meant to be a fun, CLEAN musical...that's why I love it. And that's why it didn't win the Tony award..."
I don't have a problem with Wicked not winning the Tony Award (though I do think the Avenue Q's producers acted unethically to secure their win and if it had been a bigger musical pulling that....), but I disagree with your reasoning why. Lots of cute, clean musicals have won the big award. Millie and Hairspray are just two very recent examples.
Updated On: 7/30/05 at 03:20 PM

[bwayfan3]

Posted: 7/30/05 at 3:45pm

It's not only about suspension of belief. It's also about the ability to make inferences and draw conclusions. Not everything should have to be spelled out for the audience.

[Wanna Be A Foster]

Posted: 7/30/05 at 3:46pm

"wicked" IS an inconsistency.

[jczelyph]

Posted: 7/30/05 at 3:49pm

What happened with the Ave Q producers acting unethically? I'm intrigued!

[Anakela]

Posted: 7/30/05 at 10:32pm

Around Tony voting time Avenue Q was hitting up road producers for their vote, since getting the touring 'Best Musical' is a big draw of course. While at the same time the Q producers were making their deal with Wynn to play at his hotel in Vegas only and had plans already to not go on tour at all.

A few road voters were quoted in the Post after the fact saying that if they'd known Q had no plans to tour they would have voted for Wicked for Best Musical instead.

(At least that's the way I remember it all happening, pls feel free to correct)

[willact4food]

Posted: 7/30/05 at 10:44pm

Eh, the 2004 Tonys have been over with and that's that. Avenue Q won, so we should be happy for them!

Now back to the topic, it's always been my understanding that the salesman isn't suppose to be seen. But even if he could been seen a little bit, I wouldn't mind. It's the magic of musical theatre. It's about believing, and truly having fun with the story, and getting involved. This, if you ask me, if getting waaaay to involved. Just have fun with Wicked! That's the point of it!

Brandon

[tagiunagi]

Posted: 7/30/05 at 11:16pm

I've always found this "inconsistency" interesting. Correct me if this is actually supposed to be confusing in the show or if I've spotted one of the problems in Wicked's book.

**spoiler**

When Morrible and the Wizard recruit Elphie to put spells on the monkeys, Elphaba realizes that she is there because the Wizard actually can't read spells. In fact, Elphaba says, "You have no real power." And the Wizard says, "That's why I need you." And then at the end of the show when Elphaba is "dead" and we learn that Elphaba is the Wizard's child, Morrible says, "That's why [Elphaba] had such power. She was a child of both worlds." Uhh... just a second ago you said that the Wizard had no power? How is this an explanation?

If I'm wrong, please correct me, but I think I've pointed out something suspicious!

[jczelyph]

Posted: 7/30/05 at 11:46pm

OMG, what is that you people aren't understanding?? Because her biological father (the Wizard) was from earth and her mother from Oz (i.e. two different worlds), that somehow gave her magical powers. Neither of her parents had magical powers. That's it. How that actually occurs is not revealed, but then again neither are the mystic mechanics of how Elphaba flys ('she just can, she's magic') or how Morrible actually conjures the tornado. It's just a fact that a child of two worlds will be magical.

It's not meant to be confusing if you have any sort of ability to follow a story.

[tagiunagi]

Posted: 7/30/05 at 11:58pm

Jeeeeeezzz. I apologize for not understanding. I won't comment anymore. Just like you want it.

[jonartdesigns]

Posted: 7/31/05 at 12:12am

my theory (since plot holes in wicked are just SO uncommon) is that the green bottle crap had more going for her powers than the parents did

[jczelyph]

Posted: 7/31/05 at 12:55am

Jeeeeeeeez indeed. I just don't understand how people can not understand something from the show, and then still not understand it when it has been explained at least two times on this thread. I couldn't care less if you keep posting or not.

jonart: That is a good idea...

[JMVR]

Posted: 7/31/05 at 1:44am

JC congrats on you ability to follow a simple story line! But she "somehow" gets magical powers? I think Tagiunagi makes an interesting point which is: HOW AND WHY does Elphie get the powers. "Somehow" probably doesn't cut it as an answer from someone who can follow the story.

My original point when starting this thread was NOT to discuss whether or not the theater is about suspended disbelief, the magic of the theater or anything like that. It's this simple: you are the best-selling ticket on Bway, a huge hit and a huge investment. people pay tons of money to come to NY and see the show and everyone in the show is working very hard at making it work every night. I would expect a little more consistency in casting an actor playing The (young) Wizard to be black simply beacuse Ben Vereen is black and even if the young Wiz is onstage ten seconds and I was not supposed to see him (I now regret i did) they already HAVE black ensemble members so why not go the extra mile and pay attention to detail? It's all I wanted to say.

I never said it was a big deal or that the show should be scrappped from the great whitr way, I simply pointed out a "gaffe" like they do on films when there's minor mistakes. So people, lay off! I just thought people who know so much would find a little off-the-beaten path post amusing, that's all!

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 7/31/05 at 11:50am

Thenardier,

You wrote: Mis Pennywise - let it go and accept it. Consider Nebraska and Oz to be two different dimensions. The clashing of dimensions can have a crazy affect on someone.

But if you are willing to accept that the clashing of these two worlds and the green vile turned a girl green, accept that she also gained some power.

"The clashing of dimensions can have a crazy effect on someone" is as good an "explanation" as I've gotten. Thanks, Thenardier. But still, let's be honest, it's a throw-away line. It's like "This town just ain't big enough for the two of us" or "He was never meant for this world" or any of those pat answers that a character uses to bring closure to a story.

So, thank you, for gently trying to persuade me. I sincerely appreciate it. I still think that it's a stupid thing for Morrible to say, but that's okay because there are LOTS of stupid things spoken in LOTS of plays, musical, songs, movies and so forth.

What I find offensive on this thread is posters talking to people who question the "logic" or "deduction" of this line like they're idiots. "Following the storyline" isn't a problem. The subject of this thread is "inconsistency" and posters are pointing out flaws in the show that they find troubling or distracting. Forget the novel, forget the MGM movie, forget the original L. Frank Baum stories. The show "Wicked" has to stand on its own as a work, and while it does so in my personal catalogue of successful productions, it does have its imperfections--which the Wicked-Haters consistently point out.

I don't understand why I can't find something annoying without having people become all condescending and sanctimonious with me. It's such a minor, petty, unimportant point, really. As another iconic musical said, it's "Easy to Be Hard." Maybe we can all put forth a little effort and be kinder. But somehow I doubt that's going to happen on this board. It's like anonymity and a public forum allow people to play god. There are plenty of things people on this board like or think that I don't share, but I don't feel the need to make them feel stupid. And if I have ever done so, I apologize for it because I, too, have my flaws.

Enough. Sorry to go on and on. I love reading your posts, Thenardier, and I love your name...one of my favorite--perhaps even my MOST favorite--characters in Les Miz. Another great show--flaws and all ! (I have like 6 different versions of Les Miz. I LOVE the original French.)

Updated On: 8/1/05 at 11:50 AM

[JoMarch]

Posted: 7/31/05 at 1:58pm

miss pennywise,
love your name, btw. :) I think some people were being bitchy out of boredom and for the sake of being bitchy, so I didn't waste my energy replying to them. Thanks for your lengthy reply. You summed up a lot of my feelings on this thread better than I ever could. I just wanted to give you a shout out before this thread disappeared into cyberspace forever. Good post!

[jczelyph]

Posted: 7/31/05 at 2:03pm

JoMarch, have you been watching Lennon?

[JoMarch]

Posted: 7/31/05 at 2:10pm

No but I've enjoyed your reenactment of IFC's Brian Sawyer marathon. Carry on pennywise.

[jczelyph]

Posted: 7/31/05 at 2:13pm

You'd like Lennon. It's ideal for moralistic faux-peacenik people like you.

[JoMarch]

Posted: 7/31/05 at 2:26pm

And you'd like IFC's short films, they're ideal for passive aggressive asswipes like you. Get some fresh air, child. You're glued to your computer.