A new question re Promises, Seesaw and "dated" shows...

[FrontRow]

Posted: 5/7/10 at 4:37pm

Seeing "Promises Promises" and the thread on this board about "Seesaw" got me thinking:
Is there any musical that's set in present-day (i.e., the present day when it first came out) that ISN'T dated?

The only one I can think of is "Company," and it's interesting that has held up so well since it is very connected to what was going on in society -- sexual revolution, women's lib leading to people rethinking marriage -- at the time of its creation.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 5/7/10 at 5:07pm

I think "dated" is a kind of ugly word when it comes to the arts. Of course there are things that are, but I don't think it's as often an issue as people like to claim. It's just an easy thing to say, and it's come, in many cases, to be used interchangeably with the idea of absolute, universal irrelevance.

Company has a lot in it that's deeply connected to its time, but it's also ABOUT things that remain very relevant. I've done a lot of looking into Company and the idea of being dated, and I think it's held up beautifully, yet not surprisingly if you look closely, and are willing to look at it outside of it's attachment to the late 60's and early 70's.

Updated On: 5/7/10 at 05:07 PM

[defygravity24]

Posted: 5/7/10 at 5:31pm

although Next to Normal doesn't have a specific setting, it seems like it's set in present day.

[darquegk]

Posted: 5/7/10 at 5:36pm

An easy way for a show to become dated is if it roots itself too much in the minutiae of its time period, and references cultural elements that will be completely forgotten by the time the show is revived.

For instance, compare The Wedding Singer, a modern show which sends up the eighties, with Smile, a show from the eighties, set in "present day." Most of the jokes go over in Wedding Singer because, with hindsight, people remember what they remember about that decade. However, Smile's random throwaway lines about "Jane Fonda-ful," "Nancy" implied to be the vice president, and rhyming "Gerry Ferrarro" with "girls of tomorrow" made sense at the time, but have become somewhat ponderous, especially in a show which isn't rooted plot-wise anywhere specific in time other than the excessive references. If the show were pruned a little in its next revision and either made MORE eighties or less specifically eighties, it would be a less "dated" show.

Also, look at the Tams-Witmark licensed script of HAiR and compare it to the Broadway show. Many of the more obscure references, in fact almost all of them, have been cut or revised to make the show, while still Sixties, "timeless" to those who weren't there or don't remember the smaller details of the decade. A joke about the Singer Sewing Machine Convention, or Aretha Franklin singing "Indian Love Call," played better forty years ago than today.

[AwesomeDanny]

Posted: 5/7/10 at 10:43pm

As soon as I read the first half of your post, I immediately thought of Company, only to find that you had also realized that it manages to somehow stay modern. I think what makes it still feel almost new is that it is really about characters and general themes instead of specific major events and famous people. I think that also applies to A Chorus Line. While the revival approached it as a period piece, I think that it still has a modern feel to it. These two musicals are about people and not events, which is why I think they don't feel old.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 5/7/10 at 10:44pm

Avenue Q.

[Kad]

Posted: 5/7/10 at 10:56pm

It's the shows that have a strong driving theme or moral that enables them to transcend being dated. Shakespeare's plays are riddled with references that have long since been forgotten, yet they still play well. There are shows that live in the present, and then there are shows set in the present.

[uncageg]

Posted: 5/7/10 at 11:22pm

I just can't go into a show set in the past and look at it as being "dated". I just take my mind back to that time period and enjoy it. Not until I have left the theater do I start to think how it may relate to the present. So for me, I guess, practically all "dated" shows hold up. My thought is if I buy a ticket to a "dated" show, I know what I am going into and I go with it. Just my random thoughts.

[broadwaypunk06]

Posted: 5/8/10 at 12:17pm

I agree with you, uncageg.

[Wishing Only Wounds]

Posted: 5/8/10 at 12:45pm

Legally Blonde
La Cage (I think..?)
In The Heights
13
Hair


...all set when they first premiered. I'm sure there are others, too.

[TimesSquared]

Posted: 5/8/10 at 1:36pm

Cole Porter is famous for the au courant references in his songs. That doesn't stop productions of Anything Goes from being produced, but many of the jokes built on obscure, dated references do fall flat.

I think one of the marks of a good director, and by extension the actors, is their understanding of the spirit of an era-specific line in a show. It's a tricky thing to deliver a line that hinges on an obscure reference (especially a laugh line, since the success of the delivery is signaled by a laugh response--or not). But time and again I find myself laughing at a joke in a show that contains an unfamiliar reference. The actor's delivery and true understanding of the joke made me understand why it was funny, even if I was unfamiliar with the reference...all in the blink of an eye. That's a talent I never take for granted, and a talent necessary to make any good revival work.

[chinto1984]

Posted: 5/8/10 at 3:25pm

I think A Chorus Line is a good example. Here is a show in which the material transcends the time period, but the revival made it a period show. It wasn't as appealing. They copied the original production. It made it nostalgic. The show has too much substance to be taken for granted like that.

Rent is going to be interesting because it is associated with the way the original production did things. How does put on Rent in 20yrs?

[Jon]

Posted: 5/8/10 at 5:05pm

Avenue Q was out of date the day it opened. A mix tape??? Who owns a cassette recorder?

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 5/8/10 at 5:27pm

Yes. The whole show was out-of-date because of that reference.

[TimesSquared]

Posted: 5/8/10 at 6:21pm

Agreed, Chinto. A Chorus Line does have a few dated references-- the novel "Peyton Place", Robert Goulet and Steve McQueen (as sex symbols)--more than a little before the time of today's 20-30 somethings. But I don't think that they justified setting the show in the '70s (via the costumes if nothing else). If I remember correctly, the Playbill for the original production identified the setting something like this:
Place: A Broadway theater.
Time: Now.
I didn't see the revival. Did the Playbill list the time and place in the same way?

[Kad]

Posted: 5/8/10 at 7:45pm

"Avenue Q was out of date the day it opened. A mix tape??? Who owns a cassette recorder?"

It's my understanding that, although it still being called a mix tape, the prop is now a CD in the off-Broadway production. Can anyone verify?

[darquegk]

Posted: 5/9/10 at 6:05pm

I believe it is a cd, and the term "mix tape" is still common for a compilation cd. In the world of hip-hope, any compilation is actually termed a mix tape as a genre.

[newintown]

Posted: 5/10/10 at 10:21am

The word "dated" is enormously unhelpful when discussing theatre. There are plays set in a time period other than that in which they were written, and there are contemporary plays. Both kinds reflect the mindset of the time in which they were written.

Personally, I find it much more interesting to explore that - the mindset of the time in which they were written - than to try to update a show or make it "relevant." Relevance is in the mind of the beholder, and there are a lot of beholders who are dismissive of anything they don't already understand. I find it fascinating to see how people valued other ideas and things and feelings in other times.

I think Company is inextricably a part of the 70s, particularly the pot-smoking scene and the Bobby/April seduction (although the whole thing is 70s to me). Just because there are no references to contemporary events or people doesn't make it operate outside time.

The problem is (as I noted in another thread), most audiences aren't interested in exploring the meaning of another time - they want a show that's about them right here, right now. So you can set a show in the 50s, but they better act like people do today if you want it to sell.

[ErinDillyFan]

Posted: 5/10/10 at 10:35am

I thought Company was very dated in the topics and situation that were made fun of. I kept thinking back to the 70s. A lot of my reactions were delayed as I filtered them through a time warp process.

[ErinDillyFan]

Posted: 5/10/10 at 10:40am

I think you have to divide the "dated" discussion between music and lyrics/book. I think "Promises, Promises" is dated by the music stylings much more than the book.