Andre DeShields plays the Gorilla in "Prymate." Poor choice?

[IGOTANAME]

Posted: 3/22/04 at 7:52pm

Andre De Shields is playing a gorilla. The man has no pride. How can an African American actor of his stature agree to play that role. Is not like he wasn't around when Black folks were often compared to apes. He obviously has no conscience. It's self-inflicted racism. It's not like he isn't aware of the struggles our predecessors waged against the Black man being de-humanized. He's been around. What the hell was the struggle for if we ourselves degrade ourselves? I'm sure there are counter opinions out there, however, as a Black woman it sickens me.

[MusicMan]

Posted: 3/22/04 at 7:57pm

Uh, maybe that's the point they're trying to make?

Best to read the play, see the production, or, at the very least, read the reviews before one jumps to conclusions.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 3/22/04 at 8:05pm

Whatever happened to color blind casting ? He is an actor playing a role. It did not take long for the PC police to arrive on the scene

Personally, Sanford & Son & Redd Foxx's Fred Sanford were more degrading than this show & the role in question could ever be . Talk about stereotypes. What about the actors who portrayed Aunt Esther & Grady ?

Amos & Andy was funny. It was an African American Honeymooners. The Kingfish was Ralph, Sapphire was Alice & Andy Brown was Ed Norton. Same plots with the Kingfishs/Ralph's hairbrained schemes & Ed/Andy's being the comic foil. All that was missing From Amos & Andy was Trixie

Updated On: 3/22/04 at 08:05 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/22/04 at 8:18pm

There's really no point in pretending that the casting of De Shields in the role of gorilla is not meant to be provocative and completely racially loaded. And in a culture as awful as ours is around issues of race, the casting is already provoking discussions, and that's a good thing.

Dismissing discussion as "pc police" is to sidestep the very issues that the play is attempting to raise. Calling it "color blind casting" is simply wrong. Comparing a new dramatic play in 2004 to a television sitcom from 30 years ago is like comparing frozen broccoli and oranges.

By the way, I had never endured the Disney Lion King cartoon before I endured the production of the musical on Broadway. So I had little idea what animals the humans were supposed to be representing. When I commented to a friend that I thought one character in particular seemed almost racist in its depiction, she (who had seen the movie) said, "Oh, you mean the monkey?" My jaw dropped that this black woman in tribal makeup chattering on was suppose to be a MONKEY.

Somehow, I don't think that it was Taymor's intention to start discussions of race, but it did that day.

Updated On: 3/22/04 at 08:18 PM

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 3/22/04 at 8:27pm

To each his own, I always say. Both Andre De Shields & the cast of A & A are both talented actors playing roles. This is the connection. I assume Mr De Shields is not that desparate for money he would take a role he thought was demeaning. If a non african american were playing an ape ( & maybe making a fool of himself ) would we be having this conversation ? Just a thought

Updated On: 3/22/04 at 08:27 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/22/04 at 8:35pm

We would probably be having a different conversation because the casting would not be inherently racially loaded as it is now. Since white people are in the majority and are in fact the locus of power in American culture, it wouldn't be provocative to have a white man play an ape. Plus, there really AREN'T any racial stereotypes wherein your average white guy is commonly thought to be a savage sexual animal. I think it might be because of the Dockers.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 3/22/04 at 8:41pm

Bottom line is if Mr De Shields is comfortable playing the role, that should be sufficient for all concerned

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/22/04 at 8:44pm

Certainly you're not saying that because he took the role there should be no discussion of it? My guess is, everybody concerned is probably hoping it will provoke discussion.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 3/22/04 at 9:59pm

Discussion yes . Debate yes - We have had both & I am going to bed. Nighty Night

[izzard]

Posted: 3/22/04 at 11:09pm

It is worth reading Bruce Weber's article in the New York Times about the Florida production of the play. Mr. DeShields is quoted in it, presenting some of the reasons why he thought it was important to take on the role.

The article ran on February 23, so it appears to already be archived on the Times site (meaning you have to pay to access it), but there are other websites that have transcripts of the full article if you do a google search for it.

[IGOTANAME]

Posted: 3/23/04 at 11:23am

oh yeah, Roxy? And he'll do a great job, get a Tony nom, the production will make a lot of money and everyone will think its OK and next season there'll be more of the same kind of casting offered to Black actors. And before you know it, we will have turned the clock back 100 years and be "yah-sir-ing" all over the stage. The fact that they cast a Black man as a gorilla is racist. The fact that he accepted the role is a step backwards for all Black actors. We, Black artists, have to take responsibility for how our actions affect our future. Our predessors did it and made changes. Change is still needed. And a Black man accepting "Gorilla" roles is not progressive no matter how you slice it up. And I don't expect you to understand.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/23/04 at 12:03pm

Obviously, IGOT, this raises serious concerns for you and has you at a fever pitch. I would be interested to hear if you have read the Times article or De Shields's discussion of the part and the play? I am not sure without exposure to more than the bare bones info, "a gorilla played by a Black man," gives you enough information to know for a fact that the casting is racist. Have you read a synopsis of the play or any interviews with the playwright?

Even more importantly, I would be interested to know how this will set the clock back 100 years? Obviously, De Shields found something of value in the part and the play. I'm not saying you should necessarily trust that that is good enough, I am saying that an intelligent and talented man took a racially loaded part, it's probably not wise to assume that the casting was inherently racist and he was too stupid to know it.

[IGOTANAME]

Posted: 3/23/04 at 2:01pm

FN, I did read that article. My question is did you? The character of Graham(the gorilla) was originally played by an actor in a gorilla suit. It was the director Ed Sherin's idea to cast the character as a Black man sans suit. And from the article the reasons for doing so are vague. The director did it to "infuse the play with racial overtones" For what reason? "The idea of Graham as a celebrity plaything to be gawked at, entertained by and ultimately demonized..." In this case audiences will see the Black man being demonized not the gorilla. Is that the point? To show white audiences how they demonize Black men? Or is just some tricky device by a director trying to be clever? From this my question becomes: Why did the play about a gorilla, scientists studying him, researching AIDS, their relationships have to be infused with racial overtomes? How does that make the story better. It seems only a device the director came up with to give the play some heat. It was not the playwrights intention for the gorilla to be a Black man. The director thought the play "flabby and timid" so he wanted to make changes. MR. DE SHIELDS REASONING FOR ACCEPTING THE GORILLA ROLE? To be continued.....

[KJisgroovy]

Posted: 3/23/04 at 7:16pm

How can you possibly be so angry about this when you haven't seen the play. You say playing a gorilla dehumanizes him... but perhaps that's the point... is there a possible comparison to using african american men in other medical tests... Another good call being the comparison to the lion king... is that production racist? Is that dehumanizing? Is everyone involved in that production a self inflicted racist? Would you accept a white actor in the role? Why isn't that racist? Why can't an African American play an animal? Isn't the point of acting to act outside of youself? Was it racist when Frank Langella played a lizard in Seascape? Was it anti-feminist to cast a woman as a dog in A.R. Gurney's Sylvia? Don't you think reacting to something you haven't seen sort of makes you seem hot-headed and ultimately ignorant... It's awesome that you've raised the issue for discussion and I eagerly await your response but saying Andre DeShields is a prideless, self inflicted racist, who sickens you...well them is strong words.

[IGOTANAME]

Posted: 3/23/04 at 9:33pm

KJ - Yes my words are strong and I stand by them. I've read about this play and discussed it with friends. Some were offended just at the thought of it and some, like you, want to wait and see. And when it opens I will go see the production. I do not have to see this play in order to FEEL the way I do about a Black man being cast as a gorilla. Because as an African-American living in this country I have experienced all kinds of racism. Ignorance on your part is you seemingly being unaware that Black folks have been compared to apes, called apes, etc. As an attempt to dehumanize us. We have suffered that. Has Frank Langella suffered verbal racist attacks by being called a lizard in his life? No. As I stated in my previous post the playwright did not write the gorilla as a Black man the director worked that in. The play is not about African-American men being tested on medically it's about a gorilla being tested on. So why make the character a Black man? And as far as Black men being tested on medically. Let me tell you, KJ, that has happened. I suggest you read a play called Miss Evers Boys in which Black enlisted men were injected with the syphilis virus by the US government and left untreated to monitor the effects on the disease. True story, great play.

[KJisgroovy]

Posted: 3/24/04 at 4:26pm

The miss evers boys is the comparison i was drawing... but thank you for spelling it out and calling me ignorant. That's totally awesome and open-minded behavior. So, thanks. And by the way. I call Frank Langella a lizard all the time. So...phooey...and Rafiki was not written as a black woman it was in fact a white director who decided that a black woman should play a monkey... and yet you have no problem there? Why? Shouldn't you be more heated by this use of a black woman for strictly commercial purposes... which people take their families to...Or is it because the director of prymate is trying to say something... trying to start a discussion? You should see Avenue Q and calm down a bit.

Kev

[IGOTANAME]

Posted: 3/25/04 at 1:06am

Kev - Check your post. You brought up the ignorant factor. I did not call you ignorant. Read what I said again about what you are ingorant of. You calling FL a lizard all the time as you wrote is no comparison. I took that as you trying to make a joke...a bad joke, however. Are you aware of African-American people being compared to and called apes in an attempt to dehumanize them? If not, than you are ignorant of that fact. All the characters in LK are animal so that's a bad comparison. And we don't yet know what the director of Prymate is trying to say by casting a Black man as gorilla, now do we? We will have to wait and see. But because I know the history of the ape thing as it applies to being used against Black folks, I feel the way I feel. I don't like it. I'm voicing it and when it gets closer to opening, a whole lot more will voice it, too. I won't calm down but I just might see Avenue Q. Updated On: 3/25/04 at 01:06 AM

[KJisgroovy]

Posted: 3/25/04 at 8:10pm

It just rubs you the wrong way. I gotcha. It's cool. It's awesome we can have such passionate (!) discussion about a new play opening on broadway. ! We've had a little bit of a dry season so far. If you do go see Prymate...you must report back in all it's offensive glory! See I live out here in Chicago and Mr. DeShields was supposed to play the father in an African American production of Proof(scratches head), which I already have tickets for... but he dropped out a week before production because of Prymate... so frankly I have a bone to pick as well. We should write him letters.

P.S. I liked him quite a bit in The Full Monty

Kev

[Ruffian]

Posted: 3/25/04 at 8:18pm

He should have won a Tony for THE FULL MONTY, he brought the house down

I will be seeing PRYMATE, its obviously a heated topic

[Sumofallthings]

Posted: 3/25/04 at 8:55pm

Andre DeShields knows how to handle the career of AndreDe Shields

Updated On: 3/25/04 at 08:55 PM

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 3/25/04 at 9:56pm

Well said Mr Sum

[Jane2]

Posted: 3/25/04 at 11:28pm

Right Sum- I was just about to post a similar thought-Why on earth would an intelligent and talented actor like Mr. de Shields agree to play this role if he thought it was the least bit racist or demeaning. Give the guy some respect!

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 3/26/04 at 10:34am

don't you people get it??? he's being used and manipulated by the man!! he's obviusly either not smart enought to realize he's being used, or worse, more insidious, he's turned his back on his people and sold out to the white man director in hopes of furthering his career. i hope that enough folks realize the crime that's about to be committed on broadway and have the good sense to picket and boycott this racist hateful experiment into jim crow theatre.

power to the people!

[Sumofallthings]

Posted: 3/26/04 at 11:45am

Oh please. It's people like you who won't let racism just die. Stop fanning the flames of political correctness which just makes everybody uncomfortable on both sides. We can beat racism together but we can't beat it by pointing fingers.

Updated On: 3/26/04 at 11:45 AM

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 3/26/04 at 11:58am

true, sum, i usually prefer an axe handle for beating those things, or bull connor's old hose...or sarcasm.