Anyone going to see Wonderland this week?- Page 4

[dave1606]

Posted: 3/22/11 at 10:06am

So I have had a night to sleep on this and while I did think it was a mess, for some reason I kind of liked the show. Not in the way that I liked/loved Book of Mormon, but more the way I liked Women on the Verge.

The problem as everyone is saying is that she show just has no real plot.(I heard several audience members complaining that it didn't make any sense.) We were in Wonderland and I was still trying to figure out how she got there.

The humor really is awful. I completely agree with Michael Bennett here and think that they should cut the jokes completely. I didn't come for a comedy, and if you can't make a decent joke just take it out. The story would be well served to be cut down anyway. I also hated the obligatory technology references. Not needed.

I think the real problem with this show is exactly the same as Women on the Verge. You can easily see it by looking at the playbill. Alice really only has one song in the first act, "Home" which is easily my least favorite in the show. She needs more time to be a character. I agree about the "I want" song as well.

I would like it if we had a bit more time in the real world before we tumble down in the rabbit hole. Establish more of the family relationship, and most of all, make the trip down the rabbit hole seem less random. I heard in past incarnations of the show Chloe runs away which seems to me a much better way to start. I would buy things a lot more if she were still related to Lewis Carroll, because his surprise (and also random) appearance and act two would actually at least somewhat make sense.

Despite all of this I enjoyed Kate Shindle and thought Karen Mason was excellent as the Queen of Hearts. (I also loved her costume!)

"I will Prevail" that opened the second act was campy fun, and Kate Shindle really sold it.

One last suggestion. On the concept recording it seems like Alice and Jack had a bit of a love story. I don't know if that needs to happen, but I think that they should at least have a strong friendship so that we could actually care about him.

So yes, the second act makes little sense and seems rushed together, and poor Janet Dacal doesn't really have a character to work with, but for some reason I did enjoy it, even if it only was in fits and starts.

I will be curious to see if this changes much, but this is definitely the spring's flop to beat!

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 3/22/11 at 10:26am

Interesting to hear about the script from Tampa...it seems everything in the book is completely different without making any improvements. I agree with all of what Michael Bennett and somethingwicked said this morning too. The creative team would do well to listen to some of their advice.

A major problem I had was why are things so bad for Alice? She has a job, she has a kid who seems normal and well-adjusted, the relationship between mother and child appears better than most, she has a mother-in-law who is willing to care for the child and is pleasant enough, plus SPOILER there must not have been anything that seriously wrong with her husband as they instantly make up at the end with all problems solved. He shouts "I got a job!" and bingo all marital strife is over!

Another issue is that Alice, being older and having already "read" Alice in Wonderland, knows bits of the plot before it's happened. She gets to the tea party and says oh I know this scene, etc. When the white rabbit enters he says, "I'm tardy, I'm tardy." Alice says, "I thought it was 'I'm late, I'm late,'" to which he responds, "Disney owns the rights." I agree with others that if it was Chloe discovering these characters for the first time we could at least experience through her sense of wonder.

Updated On: 3/22/11 at 10:26 AM

[newintown]

Posted: 3/22/11 at 10:35am

They have, unfortunately, kept the hokey and contrived conceit of Alice as troubled Everywoman traveling through a fantasy world to save her family. The basic premise of attempting to translate Through the Looking Glass into a quasi-contemporary allegory is also a fool's errand.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 3/22/11 at 10:42am

I did find myself wondering if the entire enterprise wouldn't have been better served if Wildhorn had just done a straightforward adaptation of ALICE IN WONDERLAND (with a modern WIZ-ish bent) and the answer is yes, that probably would have been a better idea - but I still maintain that the problem with ALICE on stage always has and always will be that, unlike THE WIZARD OF OZ, there is no central driving narrative.

That Disney joke is one example of the bad humour in WONDERLAND - totally lame - and frankly not even accurate since that is one of the most famous lines from the original (public domain) book.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 3/22/11 at 11:38am

Yeah, I feel like they basically just took the title "Alice in Wonderland" and nothing else. Why not stay closer to the book? It sounds a hot mess. I really like the idea of the daughter running away and Alice having to go back into Wonderland.

[rougeduck]

Posted: 3/22/11 at 11:56am

I'm so excited! I'm seeing it tomoro! I'm pumped for the derivative poppy pop pop score and the flashy loud as loud can be costumes! I only hope it COMPARES to the original demo, pictures, and negative hype its been getting.

[Kalimba]

Posted: 3/22/11 at 12:07pm

I'm really perplexed as to how Frank Wildhorn continues to get his crap produced (unless people are in it for a tax write-off).

[adamgreer]

Posted: 3/22/11 at 12:12pm

The original concept definitely sounds infinitely more intriguing than what's onstage at the Marquis.

I also don't see any other reason for Alice to be a teacher, other than they get to make tacky jokes about it (Grandma says something to the effect of, "Teaching middle school English in Queens is not much of a life.")

Also, we're never told what exactly Alice is scribbling into her journal as she sings the finale. Has she figured out a way to make her book better? Come up with a new idea for her book? The rejected manuscript is yet another plot line that's never resolved.

[BroadwayBen]

Posted: 3/22/11 at 1:20pm

When does the cd come out?

[h6p8gv]

Posted: 3/22/11 at 1:52pm

In May.

[dexter3]

Posted: 3/22/11 at 3:14pm

Seeing this next wednesday...I'll send my thoughts...

But I agree with the person who questioned Frank Wildhorn's continued career on Broadway. If this show is as muddled and poorly written as these reviews, how could anyone ever produce his stuff again???

He has proved that he can write a generic pop score and yet we haven't seen any consistent kind of understanding of the concepts of structure, plot, development or even basic story telling from his work. When a musical is bad, it is the fault of ALL of the writers. The composer should be bouncing ideas off of the book writer, collaborating, and coming up with solutions to problems. But with the repeat offenses of Wildhorn, we know that he really has no idea what he's doing when it comes to crafting an effective and successful musical. At least beyond writing a chord progression and melody.

The mark of a true professional is consistency. And if anything, he's consistent at crappy musicals.

[newintown]

Posted: 3/22/11 at 3:19pm

It's an argument valid for several writers - why does Jason Robert Brown get produced after 1, then 2 (now 3) flops? Will he get a commercial production again? How about Michal Jon LaChiusa? No hits there. David Yazbek? It's rumored that Full Monty may have made a tiny profit, but certainly not the next two. Flaherty & Ahrens? No one has become rich from their work, either.

I think that the theatre is fortunate to have investors who either don't care that they'll never see their money again, or who are easily fooled...

[wickedfan11]

Posted: 3/22/11 at 3:28pm

Could someone post a song list please?

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 3/22/11 at 3:29pm

*HEADDESK* *HEADDESK* *HEADDESK* *HEADDESK* *HEADDESK*

Unbelievable. A friend of mine is seeing this in the summer...if it lasts that long. Heaven help her.

[dexter3]

Posted: 3/22/11 at 3:32pm

Well, all interesting points, but...

I don't think profitability of past shows necessarily dictates profitability of futures ones. I think each show is it's own entity...take Good People for example, it's now been extended again and will be produced by lots of regional theaters. Shrek was not profitable whatsoever.

I was mainly commenting on the craft of writing and overall quality of the shows in Wildhorn's past. Considering quality, I think Ahrens and Flaherty are extremely consistent, with a few exceptions. LaChiusa seems to be consistent in what he does, which doesn't (and probably will never) appeal to a broad base of people. JRB, regardless of what you think of his shows (I think Parade is boring and the script is lame) is a really great songwriter with a fairly large following.

Wildhorn, on the other hand, hasn't really ever had a show that was universally loved by critics or audiences. Or really, even one that has had a healthy life in regional theaters...though I may be wrong there? I just can't name one that I've seen produced consistently.

That's why I question anyone producing Wildhorn's new projects. At least at a broadway level.

[allyk]

Posted: 3/22/11 at 3:35pm

I have a free ticket to this tomorrow night (worked out well as I intern in the city on Wednesdays - otherwise I wouldn't have taken the ticket) and will definitely weigh in - probably not until Friday, though (I have class all day on Thursday and am heading back in to see Sister Act).

I figure if I don't care for it I'm not out anything, but I try to find something I like about every show I see. I'm pretty excited to see Kate Shindle, though. (Her Birdland concert a few years ago was fantastic and I loved her in Legally Blonde)

[Anakela]

Posted: 3/22/11 at 3:37pm

This is going to be lengthy.

(preface: I saw Wonderland in Tampa 2009; a few shows into first previews, and a few shows before the end of the run. I'd heard about the changes for Houston 2010 and Tampa 2011, but did not see those productions. I was at first preview last night. This is pretty much going to be drawing from all of that. Which I know isn't fair, Tampa is dead, but there's no way I can write my thoughts without referencing past incarnations, sorry.)

Ok, I think I need to do this in parts...

PLAYBILL SONGLIST:
Act I
Overture
Worst Day of My Life
Down the Rabbit Hole
Welcome to Wonderland
Drink Me
Advice From a Caterpillar
Go With the Flow
One Knight
The Tea Party
The Mad Hatter
Hail the Queen
Home
A Nice Little Walk
Through the Looking Glass

Act II
I Will Prevail
I Am My Own Invention
Off With Their Heads
Once More I Can See
Together
Heroes
Finding Wonderland


SONG CHANGES:

The following songs are now cut/still cut:
- Love Begins
- Don't Wanna Fall in Love
- Heroes (which is listed in the Playbill, as seen above, so that cut must have happened pretty recently)

Alice, not Chloe, now sings Home. (I wonder if this change happened before or after they recorded the cast recording.)

Alice and Chloe both sing Worst Day of My Life.

The ballet and the whole 'unbirthday' bit have been cut from I Am My Own Invention.

I Will Prevail now starts Act II, instead of Off With Their Heads, which happens later. There is no I Will Prevail (Reprise).


STORY CHANGES/THOUGHTS/ETC:

So, aside from still having a Jack and a Chloe, all previous incarnations of Alice have been scrapped. She's no longer a descendant of Lewis Carroll's Alice. She's no longer a children's book writer. I like the current setup in that it's basically one song and then boom, we're in Wonderland, as in the past it not only felt like Worst Day went on for forever (that song used to be so. long. the party scene? where we'd meet the real-life everyone, before seeing them again in Wonderland? so long!), but then there was also another song or two before we could get to Wonderland. And I like Worst Day now being an Alice/Chloe number. But maybe it was just me, but the opening scene, the dialogue surrounding Worst Day felt a little clunky- I thought grandma was Alice's mom for a bit, and then I also thought they were living with grandma for a bit, and couldn't figure out why Alice was living with her soon to be ex mother-in-law. But again, that could have just been on me.

Like the shorter Worst Day, but not such a fan of the fact that this means we don't see real-life Jack before we get to Wonderland now, though. I think that sort of sucks all the fun out of the payoff of them getting back together at the end, if you don't see him at the beginning to know that he's him throughout the journey. Or, you could still not show that he's him but still play up the Alice falling for him in Wonderland more. It's just awkward when the other characters have to recap for us, after Jack's killed by the Hatter, that all Jack wanted was for Alice to look at him like a hero- bring back some Love Begins or something, or some way to show us that, *during* the journey.

It's (almost?) always been a dream setup, so that I have no problems with, but there was more...urgency?...to the Wonderland journey when it was Alice trying to find Chloe than there is in Alice going down on her own after chasing the rabbit. (And, um, we got it the first few times Alice says it, she hit her head- I want to think she's dreaming, not concussed.)

Welcome to Wonderland, Advice from a Caterpillar, Go With the Flow, One Knight, Hail the Queen. All are pretty much as I remembered them. Changes in the dialogue in some parts, El Gato now has (I think) a larger crew, etc. One Knight is still killing it, which I was glad about- I think that number's pure fun, wasn't sure how NY audiences would be receiving it, though. And see, I liked (most of) Jack's dialogue and the earnestness that Ritchie's playing it with leading into One Knight- the I'll rescue you when you trip and fall, swim one-handed while holding you, etc. bits I thought were hilarious, totally sets up what kind of knight he is. The "knight school" line not so much, though. They cut that awkward having Dacal actually physically change her shoes bit between Caterpillar/Flow that used to exist. I love how much fun Dacal has with her not being able to dance -> dancing in Flow. And while it might've received one of the largest bits of applause of the night, the setup of the "the tea party" joke is really forced- I liked the "not *that* tea party" casualness that joke used to have. Oh and Alice's "who the *bleep* are you?" line is just random and out of nowhere. And Welcome to Wonderland is still hilarious!

The Mad Hatter. Technical quibble but Shindle comes out to a lot of smoke. A lot of smoke- she was kind of not visible until the second or third line into the song. Kind of defeats some of her scariness if you don't actually see the Hatter when she starts singing her first song? Love Shindle's Hatter, enjoy that she starts off Act II, in love with her unsmiling evilness.

A Nice Little Walk. I can't believe I'm saying this, because I love anything that puts more Shindle on my stage, but this number is kind of jarring, and could be cut? Or at least reworked somehow so that it doesn't start off in Chloe's bedroom? It was just odd to leave Wonderland for part of that one number, then to be back in Wonderland just in time for the Act I finale; I thought it flowed better when we didn't leave Wonderland at all until the end of the show. *shrug*

I Am My Own Invention. I've loved this number like whoa since the first time I saw Wonderland, but now I don't know... I like that it's Alice who is not a published author now meeting Carroll, but I think maybe it worked better when it was still the whole descendant of Alice storyline? I definitely missed the ballerina part of it.

Once More I Can See. Liked the Alice singing to 'herself' setup of this number much more than the Chloe's lost her memory/Chloe's getting her memory back setup that it most recently had. Especially with the Hatter now also being parts of Alice too, Alice finding/saying goodbye to her past self works.

Together/Jack's death/Heroes. No more chess game. The Hatter still has a dagger, but Jack's death now happens more 'off-stage' than I heard it happened in Tampa- they drop through the floor together, we don't actually see her 'stab' him. Heroes is listed in the Playbill, but didn't happen- maybe it will come back, because it seems like a perfect spot for it.

Finding Wonderland. I love the staging of the ensemble coming out in various costumes from Wonderland (one Alice dress, one tea party costume, etc.) for the finale, which I honestly don't remember how it happened in Tampa but I'm pretty sure that's new.

OTHER:

Because I've now received a few pm's asking about this, my recommendation re: bringing children. (Which I always answer by prefacing that I have no children in my life, so I'm never sure what to 'warn' parents about.) The Mad Hatter's entrances are scary (loud music, smoke, etc.), the Mad Hatter herself is scary, Chloe is seen tied-up a couple of times, the parents are separated so there's talk about that, the Queen likes to talk of beheading everyone, the Mad Hatter 'kills' Jack- it mostly happens offstage but there's a dagger, and a fire projection, etc. (there was an "is Jack DEAD?" from a small voice near me last night)... the younger small children around me last night seemed a little antsy at times, but the older small children seemed to enjoy it.

Runtime was about maybe 2 hr 15 min? About an hour each act, 15-20 min intermission? I didn't notice how close to 8pm they started, but I got out of the theatre and waited on line for the restrooms post-show and was still out on the street by 10:30.

Oh, and if anyone in Wonderland merch is reading this: a "Drink Me. Responsibly." reusable water bottle.

CLOSING:
(Yes, I've been going on for so long that I'm using a closing header too.) I'm in the minority on this thread, as I still enjoy it. I'm glad that I'm going back this weekend, because I feel like there are more changes to come, and plus it'll give me a chance to actually watch the show without comparing it to Tampa so much. The songs are fun, the cast is great- Shindle is brilliant, Carly is adorable, I don't know what y'all are talking about about Dacal and Ritchie having no chemistry together, etc. Sure I have some questions/quibbles on parts of the story, and I'm maybe missing a cut song, but like I said I still enjoyed it, and we'll see what the rest of previews brings...

[philly03]

Posted: 3/22/11 at 4:11pm

"
Wildhorn, on the other hand, hasn't really ever had a show that was universally loved by critics or audiences. Or really, even one that has had a healthy life in regional theaters...though I may be wrong there? I just can't name one that I've seen produced consistently."

Jekyll & HYDE is undoubtably Frank's "Phantom of the Opera" to ALW. The show continues to get produced around the world, and countless regional productions. In the UK they just launched the 2nd National Tour, after the first tour a few years ago (starring Paul Nicholas & the wonderful Louis Dearman) was universally panned (and rightfully so).

The Scarlet Pimpernel was popular once upon a time, but not so much anymore. That also had several international productions! And of course, DRACULA, the musical was completely revamped in 2005 and became a big hit in Switzerland (and Austria).

Wildhorn is a great salesperson... and truth be told, he writes so many songs for his shows, and there are so many good ones. Unless you are completely uneducated on him (which a lot of people are), even most of his detractors have at least a song they enjoy.

It's also good to note that Frank may be occasionally credited with extra lyrics, but never has he written the book or full out songs, something people seem to think he does!

[dexter3]

Posted: 3/22/11 at 4:30pm

I would definitely admit that I'm a little partial to "This is the moment". Totally cheezy but a great and catchy melody.

And that's wonderful that Jekyll and Hyde is getting european productions. Any kind of touring production is going to create more theater jobs and hopefully open the genre up to audiences who have never experienced theater before.

It still remains, however, that even with J&H, there doesn't seem to be a consistency of quality to what he does.

And just to note, I wasn't suggesting he writes the book or lyrics, merely suggesting that the creators of a musical are a team and should hold each other accountable for mistakes, and work together to fix the problems with a show. It doesn't seem like Wildhorn is able to either identify the problems in his shows or fix them. He's had a number of different collaborators and a whole lot of musicals (check the wikipedia page) with an unusually high rate of his musicals coming to Broadway. With his track record, though, I wouldn't trust his ability to "fix" or rewrite a show. Maybe he doesn't even know how.

[ghostlight2]

Posted: 3/22/11 at 4:33pm

As philly well knows, I dislike Wildhorn, and it has nothing to do with his creativity or lack thereof (no worries, philly, I'm not going there!)

Philly is right, especially as regards to the longevity of Wildhorn's work in Europe. He has been quite successful there. As to the poster wondering why this show is getting more negative reviews here than other shows? It's Wildhorn, for starters, who everyone loves to hate. Also, it's BWW. Why not join in with the chorus of Wildhorn hate like almost everyone else? There are people in this thread voicing their hate for Wildhorn even though they have no intention of seeing this show, which to me seems kind of silly.

[newintown]

Posted: 3/22/11 at 4:40pm

I have always said that this show is awful because of the book. I'm not wild about Wildhorn as a composer, but this show's massive failure is not because of him.

[kyle4]

Posted: 3/22/11 at 4:47pm

for anyone who has seen CATCH ME IF YOU CAN....

don;t you think the songs in WONDERLAND are better ?

i liked ONE song in CATCH... and MANY in WONDERLAND...

[Midnight Radio]

Posted: 3/22/11 at 4:54pm

I saw it last night as well.

To sum it up easily, it is thoroughly mediocre & fairly sloppy.
The best thing that the show has going for it are the costumes, which are dazzling but after the initial pop even they start to look more and more like expensive versions from Ricky's Halloween Store...

I would best liken it to that other recent Marquis tenant, Cry Baby.


Also, what is up with this recent notion that in big budget musicals you need an obligatory chorus number where everyone is dressed as the lead? Wasn't it bizarre enough in Spiderman?!
Updated On: 3/22/11 at 04:54 PM

[Justaguy2]

Posted: 3/22/11 at 5:06pm

I guess the curse of the Marquis continues...

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 3/22/11 at 5:34pm

Sucks that they cut the song that opened the second act in Tampa. Guess it's not needed if Chloe no longer loses her memory, but I loved the arrangements for that song.