Awful experience with the ushers & house manager at the Wintergarden- Page 2

[danceallnight]

Posted: 3/2/09 at 11:01pm

Thank you, CapnHook, for your posts. Yes, we were there in plenty of time - right as the doors opened. Also, this wasn't a school group- this was my personal purchase of 40 seats for a party. I agree that my inexperience in bringing a group to the theater was part of the problem and that there was a failure of communication. That being said, customers in any business or industry should not be treated this way. And as far as I remember, I received no special instructions from where I bought the tickets. Since the other poster also had a bad experience with this staff on Saturday (I was there Sunday), I think there is a huge problem with the staff.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/2/09 at 11:04pm

Okay, so let's take this from another angle. What outcome could possibly give you satisfaction?

[PiraguaGuy2]

Posted: 3/2/09 at 11:05pm

Maybe if they gave her hot chocolate and a hug.

[danceallnight]

Posted: 3/2/09 at 11:10pm

I just think that people who care about this show should know how the money-paying theater-loving customers are being treated. I don't think theaters should do anything to alienate their customer base and possibly send people elsewhere to other types of entertainment. And hot chocolate and hugs don't sound too bad either.

[CapnHook]

Posted: 3/2/09 at 11:10pm

House Management/Ushers can be VERY rude and have attitude -- BUT it is so easy to understand why. They have to get everyone seated to their exact seats by curtain time, and when everyone comes in droves close to curtain time, the time crunch kicks in.

Plus when you deal with volunteer ushers who aren't familiar with the house: FORGET ABOUT IT. MAMMA MIA! employs union ushers, however, so there is that higher expectation.

In my experience, house managers have always been nice and approachable. Especially the gentleman at the Broadway Theater. He has helped me twice on two different occasions and was super nice.

The only responsibility the theatregoer has when attending a show is to arrive prior to curtain time and sit in the seat designated on their ticket. Other than that, they have to follow house rules (no picture taking, turn off phones, etc.). It is the theatre's responsibility to setup an efficient way to have the audience get into the theatre an in their seats by curtain time.

This is why they instruct house management to create queues outside the theatre and have an employee shout out "have your ticket in hand, each person must hold their own ticket!" danceallnight -- did they have anyone doing this? Or was there no line by the time your group got there?

[adamgreer]

Posted: 3/2/09 at 11:18pm

House Management/Ushers can be VERY rude and have attitude -- BUT it is so easy to understand why.

There is never any excuse for rudeness by people in the service industry when dealing with customers.

[CapnHook]

Posted: 3/2/09 at 11:21pm

Didn't say it was an excuse, just saying that it's understandable.

[danceallnight]

Posted: 3/2/09 at 11:23pm

I agree, Adamgreer. CapnHook, I did not hear an announcement that day and we were there early so we started to enter very quickly. Of course, I'd do it differently if I did it again but I am not in the habit of having these types of events very often!

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 3/2/09 at 11:29pm

You do realize that Mama Mia doesn't really need your group to survive, right? Now if you had bought 40 tickets for [TOS] you probably would get a lot more sympathy here and helped save the best show to ever hit Broadway that closed way before its time.
Perhaps when they bring it back in the Spring you can take the kids there.

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 3/2/09 at 11:30pm

Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the show?

You should be applauded danceallnight for bringing kids to the Theatre.

[danceallnight]

Posted: 3/2/09 at 11:38pm

Thank you CPD. The show was good. It was perfect for these 13 year old girls. It was absolutely thrilling to see how into it they got. For many of them, it was their first Broadway show ever. For a few, it was their first trip to NY. It sparked a great conversation on the way home as to how the movie and the show were different. It opened up their eyes as to what live theater could provide as an experience vs. watching a movie or a DVD. Most agreed it was a more exciting and engaging experience to watch it as live theater than on DVD. This is where the love starts, IMO. Experiences like these at this age can build a lifelong love for theater.
Updated On: 3/2/09 at 11:38 PM

[TheActr97J]

Posted: 3/3/09 at 12:39am

It opened up their eyes as to what live theater could provide as an experience vs. watching a movie or a DVD.

Now I'll drink to that!

[Byron Abens]

Posted: 3/3/09 at 12:47am

Now were you the only adult with this group of 40 teenagers? Because if so you deserve a special medal for bravery.

[totheatreguy]

Posted: 3/3/09 at 2:34am

WARNING: LOOOOONG POST AHEAD

FIRST: My qualifications: I have been working in Front of House for one of America's top theatre production companies for many years.

SECOND: I would just like to point out that while I'm sure no one at the theatre walked in to work that day intending to do you a disservice, nothing of what I say below is intended to excuse what happened. I can not offer you condolences or advice on who to speak too, as I am in no way connected with the theatre and only have your version of the story. But I hope that I can offer you some insight into what may have gone wrong, and how to handle groups in the future.

THIRD: Your problem is very general in that a lot of things went wrong. If you feel the need to pursue the problem further for whatever reason - be it a desire for some sort of reimbursement or apology, or to try to improve the theatre's customer service for others - I would highly recommend that you focus on a single issue rather than presenting the assortment of issues you have presented. In dealing with escalated customer service issues, I find a calmly presented SINGLE issue usually achieves a much more satisfactory result for the customer. Resist the urge to take on multiple issues. My informed opinion: You will not recieve anything more than an apology regardless of how you persue this. If that is all you are looking for, then returning to speak with (or calling) the house manager about what happened may be your best bet. Otherwise, try to find out which management company owns the theatre, or who the General Manager is.

FOURTH: What may have gone wrong and how to handle future group outings (Take note anyone who organizes group trips to the theatre).

---------------

“I don't know why it was so difficult with the first two ushers.”

You’re right. You don’t. I hope what I write below will help you understand why things MAY have gone wrong for you, with the understanding that it does not excuse any rude behavior on the part of the staff. I don’t know the specifics of the venue in question, but many theatres share common issues that affect customer service.



"I bring in a group of 40 people, most of them 13 year olds."

Problem number one. There is no solution for this no matter how mature your group. Tour groups are the front of house staff's WORST NIGHTMARE. There are a multitude of reasons why, but I'm sure you can think of some. Even the most well behaved group of 40 people is hell for the FOH staff to deal with. And on a show like Mamma Mia the whole audience is made up of tour groups. You MUST accept that much of the time you will be processed in a very mechanical fashion. There is simply no other practical way to handle it. (Note: That doesn't mean the staff needs to be rude.)



"So, the scanner takes the 40 tickets and they start to enter."

You have now made the scanner very upset. He or she is stuck between a rock and a hard place. If he takes the tickets, he must flip through them (or risk the group leader trying to help, which is even worse), watch the scanner for errors, mis-scans or invalid tickets, count each person entering (at 40 tickets, there is a wide margin for error since the rate of tickets scanned and bodies entering usually does not match at all), coral them in the lobby and direct the group leader on where to go. No ticket scanner on earth will be happy with you for that.
But, if he directs you to hand the tickets out individually, you and your group will block the entrance way, which must be kept flowing at all times. Bad things happen when people stop moving.

SOLUTION: Hand out your tickets to each group member before entering. If you trust them you can ask them to sort out in advance any trades if they want to sit next to so-and-so, as it is very difficult to do this once inside the auditorium, and you ran the very high risk of some of your party ending up in seats that do not belong to you. If your group is going to lose the tickets, or if there is no time to hand them out prior to arrival, then stand in front of the ticket scanner’s “gate” and hand the tickets out to each person just before they reach the scanner, while instructing them to wait in a suitable area inside, or to follow the scanner’s directions. If you absolutely cannot give the tickets out individually, the best option will likely be to hand the usher the block and very tightly control the flow of people coming through his “gate”. Watch him, as he successfully takes a ticket, let one person in (accounting for yourself as well). Do not let them wander in willy nilly, direct them to a suitable area to wait for the rest of the group.



“I tried to tell them that we had most of the seats in three successive rows. If they could just point out which rows were our three, I would get the kids into the rows.”

The problem with groups is there is such a huge potential for seating issues, not just before the performance but during late call seating as well. The ushers know that nine out of ten group leaders are not nearly as organized as you, and so they will probably want to do the seating in a very specific way.

SOLUTION: Unless you suspect the staff is seating you in the wrong place, I would recommend just suffering the extra seemingly unnecessary steps, as usually anything the usher does that you may not have is aimed at preventing future seating issues for you and others. (Again, no excuse for rudeness, but don’t mistake efficiency for rudeness either). From what you described, it seems the ushers themselves may have gotten confused. Again, no excuse for any rudeness you may have encountered.



“Potential safety issues it created when the house manager separated me from the group and the kids in the group from each other”

I am sure your group had more supervision than just you, since you said that most but not all of your group was 13 year olds. So I am assuming that there were other adults intermixed with the kids who shared the burden of direct supervision. The theatre manager would likely have expected the same, so I’m not sure where exactly the safety issue lies.

SOLUTION: It is very near impossible to keep a group of 40 together when navigating in the usually confined and crowded lobbies of a theatre, so expect that many staff members won’t try. If possible, instruct minors to stick with an assigned adult. If you don’t feel safe, you don’t have enough supervision. If your adults are standing together, then your supervision is inadequate. This is not a social club for the supervisors, they will need to be in amongst the kids. (I am not passing any judgment on the quality and quantity of your supervision by the way… again, I wasn’t there).



“In this economy, I think they should treat people a little nicer that bring in thousands of dollars of business.”

Suffice it to say, the FOH team can not make everyone happy, so they must do their best to make the majority happy. In very rare occasions, this can create issues or worsen the issues that the minority is experiencing. In your case, an established (if not formally but in practice) protocol for seating large groups is designed to limit the potential for seating issues. It is justifiable that this potential is limited at a slight inconvenience to you in favor of exposing other parties to inconvenience. To what degree is a matter of personal discretion. And, from your description it seems that whatever approach they may have tried to take failed you at one or more points along the way. It’s possible their system is broken.



-------------------


Sorry if I rambled on. I wish this forum had better formatting options. I hope this helps you to streamline your future group theatre adventures! I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but as the group leader you can at least take comfort that (I assume) you and your group enjoyed the show. That's what matters most.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 3/3/09 at 6:10am

Every year I bring over 100 HS students to NYC...we see 3 b'way shows and have NEVER experienced a problem.

Just as we are getting off the bus (we travel from Boston and the buses stay with us all weekend; we stay in Jersey) we hand each kid a ticket...whomever they sit with is random -- so they are just sure to be standing with thier friends when the tickets go out.

This way, the ushers just deal with small groups of folks at at time -- just like a family or group of friends.

All in all....I'm guessing things weren't as bad as you say...because it happened to you it makes you emotional...but there is never any excuse for any rudeness.

[Weez]

Posted: 3/3/09 at 7:03am

Well, write to the house manager anyway. Keep it polite and don't forget to praise the ushers who you felt did provide you with help. Offer possible solutions - "had I been told at time or purchase that each group member should be holding their own ticket, all this could have been avoided" - and remain polite and civil. I guess that's all you can do; if you think the house manager really does deserve an almighty slap, you probably would have to go the the group that owns the theatre, but if all you want is for your grievance to be heard, then the house manager is surely still the best person to write to. He may not realise how terse he was. *shrugs*

[jordangirl]

Posted: 3/3/09 at 7:49am

I gotta agree with something totheatreguy picked up on that no one else seemed to.

From your description, you were the sole adult with the kids and that is SO many shades of wrong I'm not even going to go into the possible liabilities for that. At MINIMUM there should have been at least one other adult with you. AT MINIMUM. I don't care how "well behaved" kids are you NEVER take them on a trip with you as the sole adult. NEVER.

For 40 13 year olds going into a large city and crowded theatre, I would have AT MINIMUM four other adults including myself. Each adult is responsible for a group of 8 kids. Break into the groups, then if you don't feel the kids can handle their own tickets, give them to the adult with that group. Therefore you have 5 groups of a MUCH more manageable size for ALL involved and you'll get to your location in a smoother and quicker fashion. You'll also save yourself some grey hairs as the immediate trauma or "where are they all" panic. If you trust your other adults, you can keep an eye out but know that the kids are going to get to the right place in their much smaller sub-group.

40 kids and 1 adult is a horror story for the news waiting to happen.

[danceallnight]

Posted: 3/3/09 at 8:20am

Whoa, I certainly did have adult supervision there. About 10 adults, but they were inexperienced at this and obviously turned out to not be helpful with this particular situation. Supervision of the kids was not an issue in that regard. Inexperience and some lack of organization on our part made this situation much worse.

Jordangirl, I love your idea of breaking the kids up into smaller groups and having an adult assigned to each group who would be responsible for the tickets. If I ever did this again, that is what I would do.

Dramamama, you are the one who should get the medal for bravery! I have read your posts before where you have mentioned your trips and it sounds like you really do an awesome job. You are very experienced at this and if I had known I was going to have a problem, I would have asked you for some tips prior to going.

Totheaterguy, thank you for your well-thought out response. I certainly appreciate your taking the time to give me the front house's perspective. My main issue is that I just should not have been treated so rudely and arrogantly. However, in regards to the scanner, when the first person in our line got up to the scanner (I was second), she asked if there was anything special we should do since we were a large group. He very rudely said "You are just like everyone else". He didn't offer any suggestions or give any directions. So I stepped in and started doing all the things you mentioned. He didn't gripe about the 40 tickets in a bunch. He just took them and quickly scanned them. It actually seemed pretty efficient and I counted for him as we moved through as quickly as possible. I also directed them to move to the far right out of the traffic flow until we were all in. So he didn't have to do any of that and he seemed ok with that. It was the house manager that couldn't tolerate the group waiting to be complete before we moved even though we were not blocking anything. Since my attention was focused on those entering, I lost control of what was going on behind me. Don't even ask why one of those supervising adults couldn't have prevented the group from going. Like I said, they were inexperienced and just started following when the house manager was getting berserk with them. They needed better "training" I guess, since no one said "Sorry, we need to wait for our entire group". But I couldn't leave the front and I couldn't take care of things down by the seats, as it turned out, at the very same time.

My group had a very good time, regardless, which is what matters, I agree. I have also learned alot about how to improve such things in the future (although I do not anticipate this type of event again). I still think paying customers should be treated with courtesy and respect even if they are not doing things exactly the way the ushers want things to be done. A little calmness and niceness would have gone a long way.

Updated On: 3/3/09 at 08:20 AM

[CapnHook]

Posted: 3/3/09 at 8:24am

I worked at a theatre where for group sales, they gave you a copy of the seating chart when they mailed you the tickets, and your specific seats on the seating chart were highlighted. This way, members of the group would be able to select their seats prior to entering the theatre and there wasn't any "but I want to sit with Joey, not Sally!"

[danceallnight]

Posted: 3/3/09 at 8:46am

All good ideas. If I still need to vent, I will write to the General Manager, I guess, if I can find out who that is. I actually feel alot better after having discussed this on the board and I appreciate those who gave me these good suggestions and different perspectives.

[Yero my Hero]

Posted: 3/3/09 at 10:01am

The General Manager should be listed in the Playbill.

Good luck, and I hope you don't let this stop you from taking another group to a Broadway show!

[Fosse76]

Posted: 3/3/09 at 11:31am

"Contact the producers. Because you are a Group, they will be very interested to hear you."

The producers have very little power when it comes to the FOH staff. They also have to go through the house manager. If you have problems with the house manager, write a letter (or call) the Shubert Organization and have it directed to Theater Operations. I find it almost disgusting that people, merely because they think they were treated rudely, would do something that could cause someone to get fired/reprimanded for something that isn't all that important. Personally, unless they were profane or slapping you, I'd let it go. Rudeness is very subjective, and one person's version of rude isn't someone elses, and it isn't fair to the employee if he or she wasn't actually being rude, but you thought he was, simply because you weren't getting your way (I'm speaking in general now).

As for the specific incident, there is just no good way to deal with groups. Ticket takers (who are NOT considered ushers) prefer tickets to be held individually, and the ushers prefer that they be grouped together. It's a no win for the house staff. Groups of people always tell ushers they have the entire row, or "we're together so it doesn't matter" and it's just not true. So they have no choice but to treat groups like cattle. There is no rhyme or reason to group sales seating...and it is important that everyone is in the right seat otherwise late-seating could disrupt everyone's enjoyment of the performance. That is more true of a sold-out performance, when it is essential that everyone is in the right seat. I have found that the children are generally more cooperative with following instructions whereas the chaperones themselves aren't and think they know better. It's easy to say "we have the entire row" when in fact you do not, and then when two people show up in the middle of Act 1 for seats that are now occupied it becomes very difficult to find where the two group members should be...this is why it is essential to sit where the ushers tell you.

All that said, Mamma Mia! ushers (and Chicago for that matter) have it the worst. Not only are they dealing with uncooperative groups, they also deal wwith a lot of foreign travelers who don't speak english and therefore take more time to deal with instructions. It's very stressful for them.

[KChenowethfan]

Posted: 3/3/09 at 11:45am

I usher at a theatre in DC that gets a lot of school groups. We generally prefer each person has a ticket in hand otherwise it gets very messy. One thing that gets very annoying is when the adult chaperones attempt to seat the kids for us while holding on to all of the tickets, insisting they have an entire section and the kids can sit anywhere. 9 times out of 10 there is a mistake when they try to do this and we have a few people interspersed within the group seating block who have someone sitting in their seats. This makes more work for the usher and annoys the patrons not part of the group.

[tomwingfield]

Posted: 3/3/09 at 12:04pm

each theatergoer should have had the ticket in hand and the teacher should have had a map. The house manager was quite correct in his handling of the situation -- he had a group of kids inside without tickets and a dopey teacher still taking a head count. I wouldn't let my daughter go a a trip with a teacher like that!

[jordangirl]

Posted: 3/3/09 at 12:29pm

Whoa, I certainly did have adult supervision there. About 10 adults, but they were inexperienced at this and obviously turned out to not be helpful with this particular situation. Supervision of the kids was not an issue in that regard. Inexperience and some lack of organization on our part made this situation much worse.

Jordangirl, I love your idea of breaking the kids up into smaller groups and having an adult assigned to each group who would be responsible for the tickets. If I ever did this again, that is what I would do.

Ok, I wasn't clear from your post if there were other adults. What I'd be sure to do the next time is sit down with the other adults going a day or two before the trip and go over how things will work. You probably have a good idea of who would want to sit with who already, so you can use that time to break the groups up among the adults who are going along. (Worst case, have a meeting in the bus or train while the kids are contained.)

BUT, that said, they need to know what is expected of them on a trip. I had volunteer contracts I drew up for every youth group trip I led and the volunteers going along all had to read about their responsibilities and sign that they understood them. That way no one could show up the day of a trip and say "Oh, I didn't know I was going to have to do that."

Explain to the kids how it is going to work. The seats are basically together and they will have intermission and their trip to and from the show to socialize. 9 times out of 10 they will be fine with this ~ and if they push, it's usually to test you, especially considering how this one went. You may hear "But when we saw Mamma Mia!..." Just let them know nicely but firmly that like they learn, you learn, and you learned from that experience better ways to do things. :) I also had a contract the kids signed by them AND THEIR PARENT/GUARDIAN, stating behavioral expectations for the trip so that we were all on the same page and if a behavior had to be dealt with, it was not arbitrary but had already been addressed.

Those contracts with volunteers as well as parents and kids were invaluable to me. :)

Good luck!

Updated On: 3/3/09 at 12:29 PM